message exchange ... BEGIN Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2005 18:41:06 -0000 From: "Gary D. Robins" Some Iowa Robins were descendents of Robert Robins and Margaret Sharps. This couple was the born in NJ, and they and most of their children eventually migrated to Pennsylvania. Some of Roberts children were later scattered to the winds. I have a Jonathan Robins born in NJ (Jun 1807-Jun 1807), son of Robert Robins and Margaret Sharps. Jonathan wasChristened January 09, 1809 in the Greenwich Presbyterian Church, Greenwich, Sussex, New Jersey According to the Vanover book, The History of Hanover Township Book, and The Michael Shomaker Book, Jonathan was married to Elizabeth Winters. They Lived in Pa during the 1850 Census Aug 2, 1850 Census Hanover, Luzerne County, Pennsylvania Jonathan Robbins -----, Age 42, Occupation Farmer Born in NJ Elizabeth ------------, Age 39, Born in NJ Mary M ---------------, Age19, Born in NJ Ann S ----------------, Age 18, Born in NJ Sarah ----------------, Age 16, Born in NJ Cornelius ------------, Age 13, Born in NJ Christianna ----------, Age 8, Born in NJ Jonathan G, Robbins --, Age 6, Born in PA Emma A ---------------, Age 3, Born in PA Ellen ----------------, Age 1, Born in PA I believe the Shomaker Book states that they removed to Michigan but we find him in Iowa during the 1860 Census. Jul 11, 1860 Census Franklin Township, Des Moines County, Iowa Jonathan Robins *1, Age 53, Occupation Farmer, Born in NJ Elizabeth --------, Age 50, Born in NJ Christianna ------, Age 18, Born in PA Jonathan ---------, Age 15, Occupation Farmer, Born in PA Emma -------------, Age 14, Born in PA Ellen ------------, Age 11, Born in PA Isabel -----------, Age 9, Born in PA *1 Value of Real Estate 6,000 Value of Personal Estate 1,000 By the time of the 1870 Census his brother Robert is living with him in Iowa. June 14, 1870 Census Franklin Township, Des Moines County, Iowa Robins, Jonathan *1, Age 63, Occupation Farmer, Born in PA ------, Elizabeth , Age 60, Born in NJ ------, Ellen , Age 21, Born in PA ------, Isabel , Age 19, Born in PA ------, Robert , Age 54, Occupation Farm Hand, Born in NJ *1 Value of Real Estate 8,000 Value of Personal Estate 1,500 During the 1850 census Robert was living with his father. Robert is 35 and Married to Ellen (Eleanor Houpt) He has 2 children, a 6 year old son named Cornelius and a 2 year old daughter named Ellen, August 1, 1850 Census Hanover Township, Luzerne County, Pennsylvania Robert Robins *1 , Age 72, Occupation Farmer, Born in NJ Cornelius B " *2 , Age 43, Occupation Physician, Born in NJ Wm G " , Age 22, Occupation Farmer, Born in NJ Christianna " , Age 26 Born in NJ Robert G Robbins , Age 35, Occupation Farmer, Born in PA Ellen " , Age 28 Born in PA Cornelius " , Age 6, Born in PA Ellen " , Age 2, Born in PA *1 Value of Real Estate 15,000 *2 Value of Real Estate 8,000 Additional info the census form was marked to indicate that 2 families were living in the same house. Robert Robins down to Christianna was one family, And Robert G. Robbins down to Ellen was another family. Despite the spelling differences of the last names, Robert G Robbins is the Son of Robert Robins. Robert and his daughter Ellen have not been located on the 1860 census. Cornelius appears to living with his aunt and uncle, (Elizabeth "Robins" Hartung and her husband Phillip during the 1860 census in NJ July 2, 1860 Census Knowlton Township, Warren County, New Jersey Philip Hartung *1 -----, Age 56, Occupation Farmer, Born in New Jersey Elizabeth -------------, Age 50, Born in New Jersey John ------------------, Age 23, Born in New Jersey Sarah -----------------, Age 22, Born in New Jersey Mary M. ---------------, Age 12, Born in New Jersey Christiann ------------, Age 10, Born in New Jersey Rachael A ------------, Age 2, Born in New Jersey Cornelius Robins *2,---, Age 16, Occupation Farm Laborer, Born in Pa Margaret *3------------, Age 15, Occupation Servant, Born in New Jersey *1 Value of Real Estate - 17,200 Value of Personal Estate 2,000 *2 I believe that Cornelius is the son of Elizabeths brother Robert G. Robbins *3 Margarets Surname appears to be either Hipp or Kipp, Her Race is annotated with a C Robert appears to have reunited with his son sometime between June 1877 and June 1880, when he was 62-65 years old. Cornelius moved to Franklin Township, Iowa sometime after the 1877/1888 NJ birth of his daughter Claris and before the 1880 Census. June 15, 1880 Census Franklin Township, Des Moines, Iowa Robbins, Cornels , Age 36, Occupation Farmer, Born in PA ----------- Clara, Age 33, wife, Born in NJ ------------ Mary, Age 5, daughter, Born in NJ ---------- Claris, Age 2, daughter, Born in NJ ---------- Robert, Age 66, father, Occupation Farmer (Master Source Census Cornelius Robbins 1880). I have found no census records indicating the whereabouts of Roberts daughter Ellen other than the 1850 census previously mentioned. From: Robbinsfamilysouthjersey@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Gary D. Robins [gdrobins@robinsgenealogy.net] Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2007 6:58 AM To: Robbinsfamilysouthjersey@yahoogroups.com Subject: [SPAM] [Robbinsfamilysouthjersey] Children of Jonathan Robins and Elizabeth Winters. It says on page 755 of "The Michael Shoemaker Book" (Published in 1923): "Jonathan. married to Elizabeth Winters, whose son. Robert. born in Dec. 1838,died Aug 17. 1842 and whose infant child, born Dec. 10. 1840, died Dec. 23, 1840, (Hanover Cemetery). They removed to Michigan and their other children were: Mary,Cornelius, Ann, Robert, Belle and Christiana" Of these children I find supporting documentation from the following sources: Mary M Robins 1831 - Census Ann S Robins 1832 - Census Cornelius Robins 1837 - Census Robert Robins Dec 1838 - 17 Aug 1842 Hanover Green Cemetery Infant Robins 10 Dec 1840 - 23 Dec 1840 Hanover Green cemetery Christianna Robins 1842 - Census Isabel Robins 1851 - Census To that information I can add the following children that the author of 'The Michael Shoemaker Book' was not aware of: Sarah Robins 1834 - Census Jonathan G Robins 1844 - Census Emma A Robins 1847 - Census Ellen Robins 1849 - Census But I can not find and supporting documentation in either the Hanover Green Cemetery records, or the 1850, 60, or 70 Census records that show that Jonathan Robins and Elizabeth Winters gave the name Robert to a second son. Does anyone have supporting documentation of the fact that this couple gave the name Robert to 2 of their sons? From: Robbinsfamilysouthjersey@yahoogroups.com on behalf of july37 [july37@cox.net] Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2007 1:38 PM To: Robbinsfamilysouthjersey@yahoogroups.com Subject: [SPAM] Re: [Robbinsfamilysouthjersey] Children of Jonathan Robins and Elizabeth Winters. Gary, To my knowledge there is no supporting documentation for the 2nd Robert b. to Jonathan & Elizabeth Winters Robins. It is quite possible that The Michael Shoemaker Book made an oversight or a typo on pg. 755 by adding the 2nd Robert. My thoughts for this is he has Robert Stewart Robins born Aug. 10, 1839, died April 5, 1828. I'm guessing it's a typo. However, the death date is corrected to 1878 down the page when he writes more about Robert Stewart Robins. When Shoemaker lists the names of the children of John S & Sarah Carter Robins he has a daughter Sarah Spencer for them. This doesn't agree with the 1850 Census for Hanover, Luzerne Co., PA where it shows John & Sarah's children that includes a son Spencer age 18, & daughter Sarah 14. They are two separate individuals. It was a common practice to use the same name of a deceased child for one born later. So anything is possible but if you don't find Robert with the rest of this family, Shoemaker may be incorrect. Sara From: Robbinsfamilysouthjersey@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Gary Robins [gdrobins@robinsgenealogy.net] Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2007 2:58 PM To: Robbinsfamilysouthjersey@yahoogroups.com Subject: [SPAM] Re: [Robbinsfamilysouthjersey] Children of Jonathan Robins and Elizabeth Winters. Thank you Sara: I suppose it is also possible that another child named Robert could have been born and died between census recordings and that Shoemaker was aware of the birth and not the death, though in this instance dates are not given. I think that Shoemaker acknowledges that his information on some of the Robins is partly from Plumb's 1885 "History of Hanover" He states, as did Plumb that Jonathan Robins removed to Michigan. I see no evidence of that, as census records place Jonathan in Iowa, though I will concede that with 10 years between census records, it is possible that Jonathan tried to settle in Michigan and then moved on to Iowa. Plumb also states that Jacob Robins removed from Hanover to Kansas, when actually Jacob removed to Indiana, and then Kansas some years later. It is perhaps a lesson to all of us that there may be a price to be paid for not doing our own exacting research. -Gary- From: Robbinsfamilysouthjersey@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Gary Robins [gdrobins@robinsgenealogy.net] Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2007 3:16 PM To: Robbinsfamilysouthjersey@yahoogroups.com Subject: [SPAM] Re: [Robbinsfamilysouthjersey] Children of Jonathan Robins and Elizabeth Winters. Sara: Addressing your comment on Sarah and Spencer Robins. You are right, I would guess that Shoemaker simply left out the semi colon after Sarah's name. BTW, though I'm unsure of the relationship of Spencer Carter to Sarah Carter, but I believe that Spencer Carter has some ties to other members of the Robins family. -Gary- From: Robbinsfamilysouthjersey@yahoogroups.com on behalf of jkarthur@aol.com Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2007 3:35 PM To: Robbinsfamilysouthjersey@yahoogroups.com Subject: [SPAM] [Robbinsfamilysouthjersey] Spencer Carter 1, 2 & 3 Spencer Carter (1), son of Henry Carter and Hannah Spencer was b. in 1739 in Hunterdon County, served in the American Revolution and married Sarah Hoff. They are buried in the Greenwich Cemetery. Spencer C. Carter (2) was b. in 1804, son of Spencer Carter (1). He married Catherine, died in 1880 and is buried in the Greenwich Cemetery. Spencer Carter (3) was the son of Spencer C. Carter. He was b. in 1843. I did not follow him further. Spencer Carter (1) is my direct line. His gr-grandaughter, Mary Belle Carter was the grandaughter of Thomas G. Stewart/Christiana Robbins (daughter of Jonathan and Mary (Sharps?) and the daughter of Henry Carter/Mary Stewart. Mary Belle Carter married James Maxwell Kennedy. If you need more info on this line, I have researched it extensively. I now have to go back and re-read this whole thing. I can say that the Shoemaker Book is not easy to understand at times. Judy Arthur END