From MAILER-DAEMON Tue Jan 24 06:17:46 2023 Date: 24 Jan 2023 06:17:46 -0700 From: Mail System Internal Data Subject: DON'T DELETE THIS MESSAGE -- FOLDER INTERNAL DATA Message-ID: <1674566266@mlake.net> X-IMAP: 1674566266 0000000001 Status: RO This text is part of the internal format of your mail folder, and is not a real message. It is created automatically by the mail system software. If deleted, important folder data will be lost, and it will be re-created with the data reset to initial values. From loyalist-lake-history+bncBCVZBDWR3UMRB6PPWCPAMGQE3BV62AA@googlegroups.com Sat Jan 21 12:20:04 2023 Return-Path: Delivered-To: unknown Received: from pop.gmail.com (142.251.2.108:995) by ibp with POP3-SSL; 21 Jan 2023 19:20:04 -0000 Delivered-To: marshallelake@gmail.com Received: by 2002:a17:907:a49:b0:877:5f6a:6b85 with SMTP id be9csp1748595ejc; Sat, 21 Jan 2023 11:07:39 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 2002:a05:6000:1c0e:b0:2be:5403:45ef with SMTP id ba14-20020a0560001c0e00b002be540345efmr6872950wrb.6.1674328059415; Sat, 21 Jan 2023 11:07:39 -0800 (PST) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1674328059; cv=none; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; b=UBcfSmn3Vy0rKD3KBWoNVNfS8KGISowqRPl9mKnzNVHJsalyTFTFO0ZdVEYSaDTWHH HcOqkZSOsz+0a9quHKcsdgGLAwlYnauEEdzL6/PMMhf8oIvDnO7AAegi2cHOWe7sTd0M W+NtkVSd3mRfJIosIzptXEOqewPwwRbKIMhSaMK63D83eNZZZ00c6uXMajT6AoNwoZke yTnD6TC/7NHpEOBbV+v77d+Ab0bjZZSEu0JoGPhvQvMCiBwbmcz06P1gpOwk2pNgvVs+ 0Fnj4gXvzGIBoF40QGLrhYLqRi2h7cKl1K67bxGhiaO5c8Bk682CN9cznbwrEHNdYMwe nVlw== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20160816; h=list-unsubscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post:list-id :mailing-list:precedence:reply-to:date:message-id:subject:from:to :mime-version:dkim-signature; bh=O9RzoCeEZ2NP2t6Desv49YfTIMYNKPMULPrSuK1xlk4=; b=JoJSO+eIDdgIxtlbgrwMcCnLdrV3tgEiCT2C0xxeH3dpQPgLh2Z/pzHp5tpzHDu51L DDfYp/bRuqBDW1x8PspFOytY+o19iikTEjgzXY2VlUu1t4fkbXlxbyM4D9OEh0DYE5bm tdH/vDxc+vHSeqQynCrlOBxLE5422it4WigaSAI3XC7suFemqE+6O/ahs6zL3EuF93dH PTo/PEf4H9Djvmi7A8ZYgwF6/LwEL2mS8GvobquxqaHz0UJ3/p6wYkOcMgUT7IyuXzHf YfAllw2yW0r/5FPkChREHfsokmvQJVIrhuziVCCFmju/f1df25LgjcK3VPpxtMVTrTFN 4sZw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@googlegroups.com header.s=20210112 header.b=CM1Hnttg; spf=pass (google.com: domain of loyalist-lake-history+bncbcvzbdwr3umrb6ppwcpamgqe3bv62aa@googlegroups.com designates 209.85.220.55 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=loyalist-lake-history+bncBCVZBDWR3UMRB6PPWCPAMGQE3BV62AA@googlegroups.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=googlegroups.com Received: from mail-sor-f55.google.com (mail-sor-f55.google.com. [209.85.220.55]) by mx.google.com with SMTPS id x9-20020adfdcc9000000b002592a877577sor1420899wrm.68.2023.01.21.11.07.39 (Google Transport Security); Sat, 21 Jan 2023 11:07:39 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of loyalist-lake-history+bncbcvzbdwr3umrb6ppwcpamgqe3bv62aa@googlegroups.com designates 209.85.220.55 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.220.55; Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; dkim=pass header.i=@googlegroups.com header.s=20210112 header.b=CM1Hnttg; spf=pass (google.com: domain of loyalist-lake-history+bncbcvzbdwr3umrb6ppwcpamgqe3bv62aa@googlegroups.com designates 209.85.220.55 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=loyalist-lake-history+bncBCVZBDWR3UMRB6PPWCPAMGQE3BV62AA@googlegroups.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE sp=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=googlegroups.com DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20210112; h=list-unsubscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post:list-id :mailing-list:precedence:reply-to:x-original-sender:date:message-id :subject:from:to:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=O9RzoCeEZ2NP2t6Desv49YfTIMYNKPMULPrSuK1xlk4=; b=CM1HnttgJiTFqPybSdb2cZcSoX8ITti6ezZNqSp95CfXg/nu3ywlqOPx8oCswb5EmZ bYjRiWRCwAgSgfhMWcwJInmx+afiZWLPoTVIXb2C26J6hgSaeFZ/hSA8u26+8MNuaWcv 9D1AWIg+ucilP4JuZmnifChH1LaiW/S2V2yY+x2qvPynl6MWynRrHAuG79zqZBWIp8Na LE/GGIrKJzXY+jDGBLXZJSX2R1JFiLeflr1ea92cfwcC73XRxU9wlVTc264YDFG4S3L6 dEJnVbsdMS9aeerNBtBX+oz4LMoe0LT8z3/9b5b01hrKOy0UAphjO282JR2JmeBLqLGf lYMw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=list-unsubscribe:list-archive:list-help:list-post:list-id :mailing-list:precedence:reply-to:x-original-sender:date:message-id :subject:from:to:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject :date:message-id:reply-to; bh=O9RzoCeEZ2NP2t6Desv49YfTIMYNKPMULPrSuK1xlk4=; b=0y23cqNHr4mr59LskjVHUF6jovFtzek3XGFcDOGI58pffu87Oybc+GYwmbtOW7tQE6 CQEBVtVchjJRD3y5r2y8WjMCg0qsGsWiAmxo/gLRTxwWorX23tThMS9CmiMaV9S4PMxf jAhQYg2zjJ8tj0F6JbDmDXFbiVxriFaoDf8OGfX4ka63T3zBGDHdO8MvsAkQf4sV4y1G rjAZDBeOm1lhQuF/4lFyKeq4tJ2/kare/tAnnso4jNeGUb13fqIy//eA5NRhYkCIW5AJ 81tYKTnKhmHziJtWk8UBJw4Sk9QwAM6GeNwlhNL9OAZNLN9Et0IE41LNp5SOgk0I/eVU HOAQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AFqh2krxYr+8E2PanjG+Vb49/MyGxQGILAc+k46f/B779kwKrGQ645wi 7i4SYGKwllqBdp0Q9lRslmQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMrXdXvJ9v0SxA2ccr80cXV5vkgk1zcOwPdtpv/sJf+hfYTMaQeVVQHhhe2HLOT5+dQBs2oOv/PnRg== X-Received: by 2002:adf:f591:0:b0:242:2748:be7a with SMTP id f17-20020adff591000000b002422748be7amr1289446wro.116.1674328058137; Sat, 21 Jan 2023 11:07:38 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: loyalist-lake-history@googlegroups.com Received: by 2002:a05:600c:2317:b0:3cf:afd2:ab84 with SMTP id 23-20020a05600c231700b003cfafd2ab84ls4325215wmo.2.-pod-control-gmail; Sat, 21 Jan 2023 11:07:37 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 2002:a05:600c:34c9:b0:3db:2ab4:4402 with SMTP id d9-20020a05600c34c900b003db2ab44402mr642727wmq.128.1674328057376; Sat, 21 Jan 2023 11:07:37 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Digest recipients From: loyalist-lake-history@googlegroups.com Subject: [loyalist-lake] Digest for loyalist-lake-history@googlegroups.com - 13 updates in 3 topics Message-ID: <00000000000018ebc605f2cae124@google.com> Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2023 19:07:37 +0000 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016367f94b4b30060474d22062 X-Original-Sender: loyalist-lake-history@googlegroups.com Reply-To: loyalist-lake-history@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list loyalist-lake-history@googlegroups.com; contact loyalist-lake-history+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 884128057387 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1 --0016367f94b4b30060474d22062 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D Today's topic summary =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D Group: loyalist-lake-history@googlegroups.com Url:=20 https://groups.google.com/forum/?utm_source=3Ddigest&utm_medium=3Demail#!= forum/loyalist-lake-history/topics - Welcome Cathy Baker [10 Updates] http://groups.google.com/group/loyalist-lake-history/t/199c960b3fc32d68 - FTDNA Discover Tool Group Time Tree Y-DNA [1 Update] http://groups.google.com/group/loyalist-lake-history/t/b4e9d03ffde18a46 - Cathy Baker - Lake and Stover and Reade [2 Updates] http://groups.google.com/group/loyalist-lake-history/t/295263bfd0d95ff8 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D Topic: Welcome Cathy Baker Url: http://groups.google.com/group/loyalist-lake-history/t/199c960b3fc32d6= 8 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D ---------- 1 of 10 ---------- From: Wesley Johnston Date: Jan 20 10:54PM Url: http://groups.google.com/group/loyalist-lake-history/msg/de00d3cde8aa Cathy gives her Lake connection below. Cathy, what is your GEDmatch kit number? (Has your Mom tested, since she wo= uld have twice as much Lake DNA as you?) I will add you to our GEDmatch Mul= tiple Kit Analysis tag group. Craig Kanalley also has a marvelous Google drive spreadsheet where he can f= it you into the big picture. FYI ... There was no "James Madison Lake". The middle name "Madison" is a f= igment of someone's misguided "research". Our James Lake was simply James L= ake. =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Wesley=20 ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: cathy baker To: Wesley Johnston Sent: Friday, January 2= 0, 2023 at 05:35:13 AM PSTSubject: Lake family=20 Hello Wesley, I got your email address from Annette Trusdell.=C2=A0 She told me about yo= u and your researching the Lake family. My Mom was born a Lake but given up for adoption in 1931.=C2=A0 I took a dn= a test with Ancestry and have been building the Lake side of her family. I have up to my 4x Great Grandfather James Lake 1757-26 July 1844 buried i= n Mt. Vernon church cemetery Brantford, Ontario. He was marred to Jane Eliz= abeth Stover and she was his third wife. I don=E2=80=99t know who his paren= ts are. I have dna matches, with other Lakes, that link to John Lake/Anne Spicer a= nd the Lakes in Gravesend New York. On a whim I decided to put in John Lake 1728-1835/Margaret Snyder, who cam= e to Ernestown,Ontario, as his parents to see what might show up.=C2=A0 I f= igured if nothing did I could remove them. Well four dna matches under their sons Christopher 1, John Jacobus Lake 2 = and James Madison Lake 1 showed up.=C2=A0 So there=E2=80=99s a link there I= =E2=80=99m thinking.=C2=A0=20 I would really appreciate any help you could provide me with in finding out= if my James belongs here or not. Thanks, Cathy=20 Sent from my iPad ---------- 2 of 10 ---------- From: cathy baker Date: Jan 20 11:38PM Url: http://groups.google.com/group/loyalist-lake-history/msg/e063153e66ac My Gedmatch kit number is KN9892304 Sadly my Mom passed away in 2014. I tried to access the Google group you sent to me and it says it=E2=80=99s = not available so I can=E2=80=99t see it. I would so love to see where Craig Kanalley can fit me into the Lake family= . Although my Mom knew who her birth Mother was she had passed away severa= l years earlier. Her birth Mother was Dorothy May Lake 1911-1986. Born in Hamilton, Ontario = daughter of Frank W Lake 1890-1952. His father was James Lake 1864-1920, h= is father was Isaac Lake 1828-1901. Isaac=E2=80=99s father is James Lake 1= 757-1844. Cathy Sent from my iPad On Jan 20, 2023, at 5:55 PM, 'Wesley Johnston' via Loyalist Lake Family His= tory wrote: =EF=BB=BF Cathy gives her Lake connection below. Cathy, what is your GEDmatch kit number? (Has your Mom tested, since she wo= uld have twice as much Lake DNA as you?) I will add you to our GEDmatch Mul= tiple Kit Analysis tag group. Craig Kanalley also has a marvelous Google drive spreadsheet where he can f= it you into the big picture. FYI ... There was no "James Madison Lake". The middle name "Madison" is a f= igment of someone's misguided "research". Our James Lake was simply James L= ake. Wesley ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: cathy baker To: Wesley Johnston Sent: Friday, January 20, 2023 at 05:35:13 AM PST Subject: Lake family Hello Wesley, I got your email address from Annette Trusdell. She told me about you and = your researching the Lake family. My Mom was born a Lake but given up for adoption in 1931. I took a dna tes= t with Ancestry and have been building the Lake side of her family. I have up to my 4x Great Grandfather James Lake 1757-26 July 1844 buried in= Mt. Vernon church cemetery Brantford, Ontario. He was marred to Jane Eliza= beth Stover and she was his third wife. I don=E2=80=99t know who his parent= s are. I have dna matches, with other Lakes, that link to John Lake/Anne Spicer an= d the Lakes in Gravesend New York. On a whim I decided to put in John Lake 1728-1835/Margaret Snyder, who came= to Ernestown,Ontario, as his parents to see what might show up. I figured= if nothing did I could remove them. Well four dna matches under their sons Christopher 1, John Jacobus Lake 2 a= nd James Madison Lake 1 showed up. So there=E2=80=99s a link there I=E2=80= =99m thinking. I would really appreciate any help you could provide me with in finding out= if my James belongs here or not. Thanks, Cathy Sent from my iPad -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Loyalist Lake Family History" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to loyalist-lake-history+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/= loyalist-lake-history/1574296130.42353.1674255297432%40mail.yahoo.com. ---------- 3 of 10 ---------- From: Wesley Johnston Date: Jan 20 11:50PM Url: http://groups.google.com/group/loyalist-lake-history/msg/e10b033e1c53 I will add you to the tag group and see what we find. Thanks very much for = including your direct Lake ancestry: "Her birth Mother was Dorothy May Lake 1911-1986. Born in Hamilton, Ontario= daughter of Frank W Lake 1890-1952. =C2=A0His father was James Lake 1864-1= 920, his father was Isaac Lake 1828-1901. =C2=A0Isaac=E2=80=99s father is J= ames Lake 1757-1844." There is nothing to see for the Google Group. It is solely an e-mail group. =20 On Friday, January 20, 2023 at 03:38:47 PM PST, cathy baker wrote: =20 =20 =EF=BB=BFMy Gedmatch kit number is KN9892304Sadly my Mom passed away in 2= 014. I tried to access the Google group you sent to me and it says it=E2=80=99s = not available so I can=E2=80=99t see it. I would so love to see where Craig Kanalley can fit me into the Lake family= . =C2=A0Although my Mom knew who her birth Mother was she had passed away s= everal years earlier.Her birth Mother was Dorothy May Lake 1911-1986. Born = in Hamilton, Ontario daughter of Frank W Lake 1890-1952. =C2=A0His father w= as James Lake 1864-1920, his father was Isaac Lake 1828-1901. =C2=A0Isaac= =E2=80=99s father is James Lake 1757-1844. Cathy Sent from my iPad On Jan 20, 2023, at 5:55 PM, 'Wesley Johnston' via Loyalist Lake Family His= tory wrote: =EF=BB=BFCathy gives her Lake connection below. Cathy, what is your GEDmatch kit number? (Has your Mom tested, since she wo= uld have twice as much Lake DNA as you?) I will add you to our GEDmatch Mul= tiple Kit Analysis tag group. Craig Kanalley also has a marvelous Google drive spreadsheet where he can f= it you into the big picture. FYI ... There was no "James Madison Lake". The middle name "Madison" is a f= igment of someone's misguided "research". Our James Lake was simply James L= ake. =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Wesley ----- Forwarded Message -----From: cathy baker To: Wesley Johnston Sent: Friday, January 20, 2= 023 at 05:35:13 AM PSTSubject: Lake family=20 Hello Wesley, I got your email address from Annette Trusdell.=C2=A0 She told me about you= and your researching the Lake family. My Mom was born a Lake but given up for adoption in 1931.=C2=A0 I took a dn= a test with Ancestry and have been building the Lake side of her family. I have up to my 4x Great Grandfather James Lake 1757-26 July 1844 buried in= Mt. Vernon church cemetery Brantford, Ontario. He was marred to Jane Eliza= beth Stover and she was his third wife. I don=E2=80=99t know who his parent= s are. I have dna matches, with other Lakes, that link to John Lake/Anne Spicer an= d the Lakes in Gravesend New York. On a whim I decided to put in John Lake 1728-1835/Margaret Snyder, who came= to Ernestown,Ontario, as his parents to see what might show up.=C2=A0 I fi= gured if nothing did I could remove them. Well four dna matches under their sons Christopher 1, John Jacobus Lake 2 a= nd James Madison Lake 1 showed up.=C2=A0 So there=E2=80=99s a link there I= =E2=80=99m thinking.=C2=A0 I would really appreciate any help you could provide me with in finding out= if my James belongs here or not. Thanks, Cathy=20 Sent from my iPad --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Loyalist Lake Family History" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail toloyalist-lake-history+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/= loyalist-lake-history/1574296130.42353.1674255297432%40mail.yahoo.com. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Loyalist Lake Family History" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to loyalist-lake-history+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/= loyalist-lake-history/PH8PR19MB6620A3FAF6BF52004A81B2A4DCC59%40PH8PR19MB662= 0.namprd19.prod.outlook.com. ---------- 4 of 10 ---------- From: Wesley Johnston Date: Jan 21 01:14AM Url: http://groups.google.com/group/loyalist-lake-history/msg/e5a9778a8d00 It turns out we had already identified your DNA as a match worth including = in the tag group. So, I moved your kit to be the reference kit for the anal= ysis. All of the following is at the default 7 cM threshold. Since we are t= alking about connections back in the 1700s, this may be too high a threshol= d, but it is the best place to start. The tag group now has 110 kits of Lake descendants or thier matches that we= have found worth including. Triangulation Cathy had only 2 triangulations on the X-chromosome with the largest being = 8.8 cM which could be valid but is so small as to require a great deal of w= ork to verify that it is not merely an artifact of genetic recombination. S= o, I am not including these. Generations MatrixIt has been a while since I ran a Geneations Matrix for t= he tag group. So, I am attaching the spreadsheet of the matrix for all to s= ee how all 110 of us connect. Here are Cathy's matches among the other 109 kits at the 7 cM threshold. The number in the cell is the DNA-based estimated number of generations tha= t Cathy and that match are from their most recent common ancestor (MRCA), a= ssuming that they connect in only one way. It is extremely important to kee= p in mind that the MRCA is NOT necessarily on the Lake ancestral line of ei= ther person. The connection can be on any of your lines. The Eastlick match is particularly interesting since this is a Y-DNA tester= whose Y-DNA matches our Gravesend Lake Y-DNA back about 1400 to 1550. At 5= .0 generations to MRCA, we are looking at something on the order of a share= d 3rd great grandparent if both Cathy and G Eastlick are in the same genera= tion of descent from the MRCA. This is far more recent than the Y-DNA conne= ction AND there is no Lake match at all. So, this is a good example of why = NOT to assume the connection is on the Lake ancestral line. Another way to look at it is this. Each person (Cathy and G Eastlick) has 3= 2 great grandparents. So, if the two of them are in the same generation of = descent from their MRCA, it means that one (or maybe two since the MRCA cou= ld be a husband and wife) of Cathy's 32 is the same as one of G Eastlick's = 32. So, there a great many possible connections. In fact, I think the fact that Cathy is not matching any of our many other = Lake descendant kits could mean that her connection with these three Lake d= escendants is through one or more ancestors, possibly the Stover line for e= xample, since Cathy's James Lake married a Stover. (There are multiple ways= in which the Lake and Stover families intermarried as well.) I do not recall how the three (Kathryn, James Lake, Robert S. Lake) connect= back other than that I think Robert descends from Moses Lake of Washington= County, PA -- more to come in a later e-mail update on Y-DNA. =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Wesley ---------- 5 of 10 ---------- From: cathy baker Date: Jan 21 02:03AM Url: http://groups.google.com/group/loyalist-lake-history/msg/e84c5e059ee0 Question for you. Do you know the last name of Kathryn in the matches? Would it, by chance b= e Sutcliffe? I noticed that she tested with Ancestry and I have a Kathryn = Sutcliffe dna match and she has Lakes in her family tree on Ancestry. Cathy Sent from my iPad On Jan 20, 2023, at 8:15 PM, 'Wesley Johnston' via Loyalist Lake Family His= tory wrote: =EF=BB=BF It turns out we had already identified your DNA as a match worth including = in the tag group. So, I moved your kit to be the reference kit for the anal= ysis. All of the following is at the default 7 cM threshold. Since we are t= alking about connections back in the 1700s, this may be too high a threshol= d, but it is the best place to start. The tag group now has 110 kits of Lake descendants or thier matches that we= have found worth including. Triangulation Cathy had only 2 triangulations on the X-chromosome with the largest being = 8.8 cM which could be valid but is so small as to require a great deal of w= ork to verify that it is not merely an artifact of genetic recombination. S= o, I am not including these. Generations Matrix It has been a while since I ran a Geneations Matrix for the tag group. So, = I am attaching the spreadsheet of the matrix for all to see how all 110 of = us connect. Here are Cathy's matches among the other 109 kits at the 7 cM threshold. <1674260240022blob.jpg> The number in the cell is the DNA-based estimated number of generations tha= t Cathy and that match are from their most recent common ancestor (MRCA), a= ssuming that they connect in only one way. It is extremely important to kee= p in mind that the MRCA is NOT necessarily on the Lake ancestral line of ei= ther person. The connection can be on any of your lines. The Eastlick match is particularly interesting since this is a Y-DNA tester= whose Y-DNA matches our Gravesend Lake Y-DNA back about 1400 to 1550. At 5= .0 generations to MRCA, we are looking at something on the order of a share= d 3rd great grandparent if both Cathy and G Eastlick are in the same genera= tion of descent from the MRCA. This is far more recent than the Y-DNA conne= ction AND there is no Lake match at all. So, this is a good example of why = NOT to assume the connection is on the Lake ancestral line. Another way to look at it is this. Each person (Cathy and G Eastlick) has 3= 2 great grandparents. So, if the two of them are in the same generation of = descent from their MRCA, it means that one (or maybe two since the MRCA cou= ld be a husband and wife) of Cathy's 32 is the same as one of G Eastlick's = 32. So, there a great many possible connections. In fact, I think the fact that Cathy is not matching any of our many other = Lake descendant kits could mean that her connection with these three Lake d= escendants is through one or more ancestors, possibly the Stover line for e= xample, since Cathy's James Lake married a Stover. (There are multiple ways= in which the Lake and Stover families intermarried as well.) I do not recall how the three (Kathryn, James Lake, Robert S. Lake) connect= back other than that I think Robert descends from Moses Lake of Washington= County, PA -- more to come in a later e-mail update on Y-DNA. Wesley -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Loyalist Lake Family History" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to loyalist-lake-history+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/= loyalist-lake-history/1338073575.66442.1674263669448%40mail.yahoo.com. <1674260240022blob.jpg> ---------- 6 of 10 ---------- From: dtlake@allwest.net Date: Jan 20 08:32PM -0700 Url: http://groups.google.com/group/loyalist-lake-history/msg/ed1ea143e372 On 2023-01-20 7:03 pm, cathy baker wrote: > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/loyalist-lake-history/1338073575.66442.= 1674263669448%40mail.yahoo.com?utm_medium=3Demail&utm_source=3Dfooter > [2]=20 > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/loyalist-lake-history/PH8PR19MB6620DAAD= 8A0A039C124312ADDCCA9%40PH8PR19MB6620.namprd19.prod.outlook.com?utm_medium= =3Demail&utm_source=3Dfooter Katherine Andreasen probably. ---------- 7 of 10 ---------- From: Wesley Johnston Date: Jan 21 02:36PM Url: http://groups.google.com/group/loyalist-lake-history/msg/11163c6dbd899 You will have to contact Kathryn directly. She is part of a mystery group o= f about a dozen matches to each other and to some of our kits (you can see = this in the block they form on the spreadsheet of the Generations Matrix th= at I sent out). We have yet to figure out how these connect to us. I suspec= t it is on some wife's ancestral line and not on the Lake line, but that is= just a hypothesis. We really do not know. =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Wesley On Friday, January 20, 2023 at 06:03:44 PM PST, cathy baker wrote: =20 =20 Question for you.Do you know the last name of Kathryn in the matches? =C2= =A0Would it, by chance be Sutcliffe? =C2=A0I noticed that she tested with A= ncestry and I have a Kathryn Sutcliffe dna match and she has Lakes in her f= amily tree on Ancestry. Cathy Sent from my iPad On Jan 20, 2023, at 8:15 PM, 'Wesley Johnston' via Loyalist Lake Family His= tory wrote: =EF=BB=BFIt turns out we had already identified your DNA as a match worth i= ncluding in the tag group. So, I moved your kit to be the reference kit for= the analysis. All of the following is at the default 7 cM threshold. Since= we are talking about connections back in the 1700s, this may be too high a= threshold, but it is the best place to start. The tag group now has 110 kits of Lake descendants or thier matches that we= have found worth including. Triangulation Cathy had only 2 triangulations on the X-chromosome with the largest being = 8.8 cM which could be valid but is so small as to require a great deal of w= ork to verify that it is not merely an artifact of genetic recombination. S= o, I am not including these. Generations MatrixIt has been a while since I ran a Geneations Matrix for t= he tag group. So, I am attaching the spreadsheet of the matrix for all to s= ee how all 110 of us connect. Here are Cathy's matches among the other 109 kits at the 7 cM threshold. <1674260240022blob.jpg> The number in the cell is the DNA-based estimated number of generations tha= t Cathy and that match are from their most recent common ancestor (MRCA), a= ssuming that they connect in only one way. It is extremely important to kee= p in mind that the MRCA is NOT necessarily on the Lake ancestral line of ei= ther person. The connection can be on any of your lines. The Eastlick match is particularly interesting since this is a Y-DNA tester= whose Y-DNA matches our Gravesend Lake Y-DNA back about 1400 to 1550. At 5= .0 generations to MRCA, we are looking at something on the order of a share= d 3rd great grandparent if both Cathy and G Eastlick are in the same genera= tion of descent from the MRCA. This is far more recent than the Y-DNA conne= ction AND there is no Lake match at all. So, this is a good example of why = NOT to assume the connection is on the Lake ancestral line. Another way to look at it is this. Each person (Cathy and G Eastlick) has 3= 2 great grandparents. So, if the two of them are in the same generation of = descent from their MRCA, it means that one (or maybe two since the MRCA cou= ld be a husband and wife) of Cathy's 32 is the same as one of G Eastlick's = 32. So, there a great many possible connections. In fact, I think the fact that Cathy is not matching any of our many other = Lake descendant kits could mean that her connection with these three Lake d= escendants is through one or more ancestors, possibly the Stover line for e= xample, since Cathy's James Lake married a Stover. (There are multiple ways= in which the Lake and Stover families intermarried as well.) I do not recall how the three (Kathryn, James Lake, Robert S. Lake) connect= back other than that I think Robert descends from Moses Lake of Washington= County, PA -- more to come in a later e-mail update on Y-DNA. =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Wesley --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Loyalist Lake Family History" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail toloyalist-lake-history+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/= loyalist-lake-history/1338073575.66442.1674263669448%40mail.yahoo.com. <1674260240022blob.jpg> --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Loyalist Lake Family History" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to loyalist-lake-history+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/= loyalist-lake-history/PH8PR19MB6620DAAD8A0A039C124312ADDCCA9%40PH8PR19MB662= 0.namprd19.prod.outlook.com. ---------- 8 of 10 ---------- From: Brian Lake Date: Jan 21 10:28AM -0500 Url: http://groups.google.com/group/loyalist-lake-history/msg/114335c9972d1 Sorry about your mom, I see now I had her in my database. She had a=20 brother Frank? I can't remember but did you check my revised kit A310397 ? Also, I must be having a senior moment but what Google Group?=C2=A0 :) On 2023-01-20 6:38 p.m., cathy baker wrote: ---------- 9 of 10 ---------- From: cathy baker Date: Jan 21 04:05PM Url: http://groups.google.com/group/loyalist-lake-history/msg/1163a37e18a12 I updated my iPad and it merged several emails into one group, which I hate= . My Mom=E2=80=99s birth father was Ewart Clifford Lutz. His children are my= Mom=E2=80=99s half siblings so Frank is her half brother. I did check your Gedmatch number but we don=E2=80=99t share dna. Cathy Sent from my iPad On Jan 21, 2023, at 10:28 AM, Brian Lake wrote: =EF=BB=BF Sorry about your mom, I see now I had her in my database. She had a brother= Frank? I can't remember but did you check my revised kit A310397 ? Also, I must be having a senior moment but what Google Group? :) On 2023-01-20 6:38 p.m., cathy baker wrote: =EF=BB=BFMy Gedmatch kit number is KN9892304 Sadly my Mom passed away in 2014. I tried to access the Google group you sent to me and it says it=E2=80=99s = not available so I can=E2=80=99t see it. I would so love to see where Craig Kanalley can fit me into the Lake family= . Although my Mom knew who her birth Mother was she had passed away severa= l years earlier. Her birth Mother was Dorothy May Lake 1911-1986. Born in Hamilton, Ontario = daughter of Frank W Lake 1890-1952. His father was James Lake 1864-1920, h= is father was Isaac Lake 1828-1901. Isaac=E2=80=99s father is James Lake 1= 757-1844. Cathy Sent from my iPad On Jan 20, 2023, at 5:55 PM, 'Wesley Johnston' via Loyalist Lake Family His= tory wrote: =EF=BB=BF Cathy gives her Lake connection below. Cathy, what is your GEDmatch kit number? (Has your Mom tested, since she wo= uld have twice as much Lake DNA as you?) I will add you to our GEDmatch Mul= tiple Kit Analysis tag group. Craig Kanalley also has a marvelous Google drive spreadsheet where he can f= it you into the big picture. FYI ... There was no "James Madison Lake". The middle name "Madison" is a f= igment of someone's misguided "research". Our James Lake was simply James L= ake. Wesley ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: cathy baker To: Wesley Johnston Sent: Friday, January 20, 2023 at 05:35:13 AM PST Subject: Lake family Hello Wesley, I got your email address from Annette Trusdell. She told me about you and = your researching the Lake family. My Mom was born a Lake but given up for adoption in 1931. I took a dna tes= t with Ancestry and have been building the Lake side of her family. I have up to my 4x Great Grandfather James Lake 1757-26 July 1844 buried in= Mt. Vernon church cemetery Brantford, Ontario. He was marred to Jane Eliza= beth Stover and she was his third wife. I don=E2=80=99t know who his parent= s are. I have dna matches, with other Lakes, that link to John Lake/Anne Spicer an= d the Lakes in Gravesend New York. On a whim I decided to put in John Lake 1728-1835/Margaret Snyder, who came= to Ernestown,Ontario, as his parents to see what might show up. I figured= if nothing did I could remove them. Well four dna matches under their sons Christopher 1, John Jacobus Lake 2 a= nd James Madison Lake 1 showed up. So there=E2=80=99s a link there I=E2=80= =99m thinking. I would really appreciate any help you could provide me with in finding out= if my James belongs here or not. Thanks, Cathy Sent from my iPad -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Loyalist Lake Family History" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to loyalist-lake-history+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/= loyalist-lake-history/1574296130.42353.1674255297432%40mail.yahoo.com. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Loyalist Lake Family History" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to loyalist-lake-history+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/= loyalist-lake-history/PH8PR19MB6620A3FAF6BF52004A81B2A4DCC59%40PH8PR19MB662= 0.namprd19.prod.outlook.com. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Loyalist Lake Family History" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to loyalist-lake-history+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/= loyalist-lake-history/afe82c12-fb6c-fcdb-1901-37c2e78b6b65%40sympatico.ca. ---------- 10 of 10 ---------- From: Wesley Johnston Date: Jan 21 04:25PM Url: http://groups.google.com/group/loyalist-lake-history/msg/117524d1639f8 Brian, your kit A310397 is in the tag group but did not match Cathy at the = 7 cM threshold. This Loyalist Lake Family History group is technically a Google Group but i= s really only an e-mail group within Google Groups. =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Wesley=20 On Saturday, January 21, 2023 at 07:28:15 AM PST, Brian Lake wrote: =20 =20 =20 Sorry about your mom, I see now I had her in my database. She had a brother= Frank? =20 I can't remember but did you check my revised kit A310397 ? =20 Also, I must be having a senior moment but what Google Group?=C2=A0 :) =20 =20 =20 =20 On 2023-01-20 6:38 p.m., cathy baker wrote: =20 =20 =EF=BB=BFMy Gedmatch kit number is KN9892304 Sadly my Mom passed away in 20= 14.=20 I tried to access the Google group you sent to me and it says it=E2=80=99= s not available so I can=E2=80=99t see it.=20 I would so love to see where Craig Kanalley can fit me into the Lake fami= ly. =C2=A0Although my Mom knew who her birth Mother was she had passed away= several years earlier. Her birth Mother was Dorothy May Lake 1911-1986. Bo= rn in Hamilton, Ontario daughter of Frank W Lake 1890-1952. =C2=A0His fathe= r was James Lake 1864-1920, his father was Isaac Lake 1828-1901. =C2=A0Isaa= c=E2=80=99s father is James Lake 1757-1844.=20 =20 Cathy=20 Sent from my iPad=20 =20 On Jan 20, 2023, at 5:55 PM, 'Wesley Johnston' via Loyalist Lake Family His= tory wrote: =20 =20 =20 =EF=BB=BF Cathy gives her Lake connection below.=20 Cathy, what is your GEDmatch kit number? (Has your Mom tested, since she = would have twice as much Lake DNA as you?) I will add you to our GEDmatch M= ultiple Kit Analysis tag group.=20 Craig Kanalley also has a marvelous Google drive spreadsheet where he can= fit you into the big picture. =20 FYI ... There was no "James Madison Lake". The middle name "Madison" is a= figment of someone's misguided "research". Our James Lake was simply James= Lake.=20 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Wesley=20 =20 ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: cathy baker To: Wesley Johnston Sent: Friday, Janua= ry 20, 2023 at 05:35:13 AM PST Subject: Lake family =20 Hello Wesley, =20 I got your email address from Annette Trusdell.=C2=A0 She told me about y= ou and your researching the Lake family. My Mom was born a Lake but given up for adoption in 1931.=C2=A0 I took a = dna test with Ancestry and have been building the Lake side of her family. I have up to my 4x Great Grandfather James Lake 1757-26 July 1844 buried = in Mt. Vernon church cemetery Brantford, Ontario. He was marred to Jane Eli= zabeth Stover and she was his third wife. I don=E2=80=99t know who his pare= nts are. I have dna matches, with other Lakes, that link to John Lake/Anne Spicer = and the Lakes in Gravesend New York. On a whim I decided to put in John Lake 1728-1835/Margaret Snyder, who ca= me to Ernestown,Ontario, as his parents to see what might show up.=C2=A0 I = figured if nothing did I could remove them. Well four dna matches under their sons Christopher 1, John Jacobus Lake 2= and James Madison Lake 1 showed up.=C2=A0 So there=E2=80=99s a link there = I=E2=80=99m thinking.=C2=A0=20 =20 I would really appreciate any help you could provide me with in finding o= ut if my James belongs here or not. =20 Thanks, Cathy=20 =20 Sent from my iPad --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups = "Loyalist Lake Family History" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an = email to loyalist-lake-history+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid= /loyalist-lake-history/1574296130.42353.1674255297432%40mail.yahoo.com. =20 --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups = "Loyalist Lake Family History" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an = email to loyalist-lake-history+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid= /loyalist-lake-history/PH8PR19MB6620A3FAF6BF52004A81B2A4DCC59%40PH8PR19MB66= 20.namprd19.prod.outlook.com. =20 --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Loyalist Lake Family History" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to loyalist-lake-history+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/= loyalist-lake-history/afe82c12-fb6c-fcdb-1901-37c2e78b6b65%40sympatico.ca. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D Topic: FTDNA Discover Tool Group Time Tree Y-DNA Url: http://groups.google.com/group/loyalist-lake-history/t/b4e9d03ffde18a4= 6 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D ---------- 1 of 1 ---------- From: Wesley Johnston Date: Jan 21 01:44AM Url: http://groups.google.com/group/loyalist-lake-history/msg/e73f40076d27 Last week, Family Tree DNA published a beta version of a new feature of the= ir Discover tool for Y-DNA analysis. The new feature is a Time Tree for gro= ups. Here is how it looks for our Lake Y-DNA project administered by Marsha= ll Lake. Clearly the Maryland Lakes and the Gravesend Lakes are not at all recently = related. Their connection is about 5,000 years ago. Removing the Maryland L= akes focuses the chart on just the Gravesend Lakes. The dashed lines with vertical bars at the end are estimates for the time p= eriod for each SNP. So, R-FT264782 formed when a mutation happened sometime= from about 1300 to sometime about 1690 with the most probable date being a= bout 1530. This is the SNP that defines our Lake family. John Lakes of Gravesend has two proven descendants, and they=C2=A0 are both= positive for R-FT270177 which formed from about 1550 to about 1900 but mos= t probably about 1750 -- well after the death of John Lake of Gravesend. The Pennsylvania Lakes are all R-FT344844 which formed after R-FT264782 but= sometime in the period 1300 to 1730, most probably about 1570. So, for a time these two branches had the same R-FT264782, but both branche= s then had later mutations that separated them. We really cannot tell from = this whether the PA branch descend from John Lake or not since the ranges a= re too broad. We need more Y-DNA testers to try to narrow this down. There is a related project -- the Lake-Eastlake project. Here is the time t= ree for that project. Our Lake kits are above those of a different branch of Eastlick kits. So, o= ur John Lake of Gravesend and also the PA Lakes all descend from a common a= ncestor with these Eastlicks. And it turns out that the Eastlicks have been= able to identify their origin -- Bratton Clovelly NE of Dartmoor in Devons= hire. So, we know that our Lakes of Gravesend came from Devon. There is no = way to know who our John Lake's father was -- and might never be a way. But= as more Y-DNA tests of the Lakes and Eastlicks are done, we may have more = clarity about how we connect. =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Wesley =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D Topic: Cathy Baker - Lake and Stover and Reade Url: http://groups.google.com/group/loyalist-lake-history/t/295263bfd0d95ff= 8 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D ---------- 1 of 2 ---------- From: Wesley Johnston Date: Jan 20 11:00PM Url: http://groups.google.com/group/loyalist-lake-history/msg/de4a0ee3f46f It has been a very bumply start to the year, and I just realized I had over= looked Annette's note from last Saturday. So, I am sending it to the group = now and will see if I have any insights once I read it closely. =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Wesley=20 ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: Annette Truesdell = To: 'cathy baker' Cc: "wwjohnston01@yahoo.c= om" Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2023 at 06:36:34 PM= PSTSubject: RE: Lake family=20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: cathy baker [mailto:marycatherinebaker@hotmail.com]=20 Sent: Friday, January 13, 2023 4:08 PM To: atrue@garlic.com Subject: Lake family=20 Hello Annette, . I have a dna match with an Elizabeth Murray and a JM associated with her tr= ee.=C2=A0 She has both Lake and Stover in her tree.=C2=A0 Her Lake goes up = to John Lake/Margaret Reade through=C2=A0 their son John Lake/Alice Spicer. I also have a dna match with a Carol Millward, managed by PhillipStone69, w= hose tree also goes up to John Lake/Margaret Reade through their son John L= ake/Alice Spicer. Another dna match NB, Beveridge-Bruce family tree also has John Lake/Margar= et Reade through their son John Lake/Alice Spicer. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Cathy, Let me tell you my opinion regarding histories that link the Gravesend Lake= s to Margaret Reade Lake and her son, John Lake.=C2=A0 I've cut and pasted = the data below from my records. MARGARET READE: NAME:=C2=A0 NEG&HR, Vol84#3, Jul 1830, pg 304. Baptized 11 Jul 1598, No. Be= nfleet, England; d. Sep 1672, Ipswich, MA. MARR: abt 1616 John Lake.=C2=A0 Per "NEG&HR", Vol84#3, Jul 1830, pg 304, Jo= hn was baptized 26 Sep 1590, No. Benfleet, Essex, England.=C2=A0 Between 16= 31/1635,=C2=A0 Margaret Reade Lake left John and emigrated with her sisters= and their families to New England, taking daus Ann and Martha.=C2=A0 She l= ived with the family of brother-in-law, Gov. John Winthrop, Jr. at New Lond= on, CT.=C2=A0 John Lake died after 1657 when Margaret Lake rcvd letter from= Rev. Hugh Peter, her step-father from London, "John Lake lives still" but = before 8 Jan 1661.=C2=A0 Margaret Lake wrote from Wenham, MA to brother-in-= law, Gov. Winthrop who was in London:=C2=A0 "Might I not bee to troublesome= to you I would have desired yours to have done mee yr courtesy as to have = inquired concerning my husbands death and how hee ended his dayes as also t= o have inquired of my cousen Thomas Cooke, whether hee knew whether their w= as any thing left me or no... I would desire you inquire whether my sister = Breadcale who dwells in Lee (Leigh) in Essex be liveing..." CHILDREN: JOHN LAKE "NEG&HR" Vol84#3, Jul 1830, pg 316. Baptized 6 Jul 1617 Wickford,= Essex, England.=C2=A0 Mentioned in the will of his grandfather, Edmund Rea= de of Wickford, dated 20 Nov 1623.=C2=A0 The bequest was that if certain la= nds called "Sopers" came into his son,=C2=A0 William's possession, William = Reade "is to give bond to the executrix or overseers of this will to pay L5= 0 apiece to my grandchildren John Lake, Anna Lake, Daniel Epps and Elizabet= h Epps".=C2=A0 Also "To my son-in-law John Lake and my daughter Margaret La= ke, 40s. apiece for rings. To John Lake and Anna Lake, their children, 20s.= apiece.=C2=A0 John is more probable than not the son of Margaret Reade Lak= e who was mentioned as dead by Mrs. Lucy Downing, when she wrote on 30 Jan = 1657/8 from Edinburgh to Fitz John Winthrop:=C2=A0 "Your uncle, Collonell R= eade, was a month or two since with us, ... and said that God had takne a s= onn of his sister Lackes that was with him, and was very hopefull for furth= er preferment."=20 THOMAS LAKE "NEG&HR" Vol84#3, Jul 1830, pg 316.=C2=A0 Baptized 18 Jan 1618/= 19 at Wickford, Essex, England.=C2=A0 Nothing further is known.=C2=A0 Not n= amed in his grandfather, Edmund Reade's will dated 20 Nov 1623, so probably= died as a child before 1623. RICHARD LAKE "NEG&HR" Vol84#3, Jul 1830, pg 316.=C2=A0 Baptized 21 May 1620= , and buried 22 May 1620 at Wickford. ANN/HANNAH "NEG&HR" Vol84#3, Jul 1830, pg 316.=C2=A0 Baptized 3 Jul 1621 at= North Benfleet.=C2=A0 Called Hannah in New England records, d. aft 1675 St= onington, CT. ELIZABETH LAKE "NEG&HR" Vol84#3, Jul 1830, pg 317.=C2=A0 Baptized 5 Jun 162= 3, North Benfleet and buried there 31 Aug 1623. MARTHA LAKE "NEG&HR" v.2, Apr 1848, pg 219.=C2=A0 Baptized 20 Jul 1624,Nort= h Benfleet, d. aft 1687 Ipswich MA. SAMUEL LAKE=C2=A0 "NEG&HR" Vol84#3, Jul 1830, pg 317.=C2=A0 Baptized 29 Mar= 1629 at North Benfleet and buried there 29 Mar 1629.=C2=A0 Note:=C2=A0 the= re is probably a transcription error in the Record as it reads "bapt 29 Mar= 1629; buried there 19 Mar 1629/30". ELIZABETH LAKE=C2=A0 "NEG&HR" Vol84#3, Jul 1830, pg 317.=C2=A0 Baptized 17 = Feb1630 at North Benfleet and probably died in infancy or as a child. DEATH:=C2=A0 The will of Margaret Lake of Ipswich, widow, was made August 3= 0 1672 and proved September 24, 1672. To my daughter Hannah Gallop and her = children, all my land at New London... To my daughter Martha Harris, my tap= estry coverlet and all my apparel not disposed of... To my daughter Martha,= and after her decease to my granddaughter Martha Harris, my gold ring... m= y bed and bedstead...To my granddaughter Elizabeth Harris, one heifer at my= cousin Eppes... To my granddaughter Margaret Harris, my carved box... my b= rass and pewter, and all my household stuff not otherwise disposed. Given what is known from source records regarding John Lake and Margaret Re= ade of No. Benfleet, Essex, England, John Lake of Gravesend is not their so= n.=C2=A0 These were wealthy, educated people of privilege and rank in the m= ilitary and church.=C2=A0 Their son, John appears to have died in 1657/8 wh= ile in the company of Margaret Reade's brother, Col. Thomas Reade according= to the letter from Lucy Downing to Fitz John Winthrop. Our John Lake was a farmer, sometimes carpenter, signed his name with a mar= k, occasionally skipping out on debts and allowing his cows to damage his n= eighbor's fields. When he did have children baptized it was in the Dutch Re= formed Church. Although our John Lake has traditionally been referred to as= "John Lake of Gravesend", he didn=E2=80=99t actually settle there until ab= out 1672.=C2=A0 Prior to that he was residing in Wallbout Cove, Flushing, N= ew Amsterdam, Flatlands and Flatbush.=C2=A0 Per source records regarding Jo= hn Lake "of Gravesend": JOHN LAKE BIRTH: c1615-1622 8 Apr 1643=C2=A0 Rem Jansen leases land for 3 years on Wallabout Cove (area= that became Brooklyn) to=C2=A0 "Jan Lockh" and=C2=A0 "Jan Picces".=C2=A0 I= f this is our John Lake (with John Peek), it would seem that he is in New A= msterdam a few months earlier than Thomas Spicer.=C2=A0 (He would have to h= ave been at least 21 years old to have purchased land, giving him a birth y= ear of 1622 or earlier.)=C2=A0 Note- there is a marriage record in at the N= ew Amsterdam DRC 20 Feb 1650 for "Jan Peeck, j. m., en Marie Volkers, Wede"= (Maria du Trieux, widow of Cornelis Volkertszen.) Abt 1646/47 - John purchases land in Flushing.=C2=A0 On 12 Feb 1653, Robt. = Field gave to his sons a "lot which was formerly John Lake's" which was loc= ated in Flushing. 1647-49, sometime during these years marries Ann Spicer (not Alice).=C2=A0 = If Wm. Stillwell's writings can be relied upon as accurate, the marriage oc= curred in 1649. Abt 1649-1654 - presumed living in New Amsterdam. 20 May 1652 - first record of John Lake in New Amsterdam.=C2=A0 Baptism of = "Metje", dau of "Jan Leeck" at New Amsterdam RDC. Oct 1654 - charged by Jacob Steendam's wife with a debt (quoted from articl= e by Fred Sisser, NYGBR, Jan 1991)=C2=A0 per New Amsterdam court minutes, "= Jan Leeck, notwithstanding arrest and summons... has departed from this cit= y". (Records of New Amsterdam 1:261). Abt 1654-1660 - Living in Flatlands. Jan 1657 - apparently had removed from New Amsterdam to Long Island and is = identified as being "of Amersfoort (Flatland) when "Jan Leyck" contributed = toward Domine Polhemus' salary (F. Sisser article, references ER 1:366). Abt 1660-1672 - Living in Flatbush. 15 May 1660 - purchased farm in Midwout (Middlewout Flatbush) from Margueri= te Provost (Town of Flatbush records, Kings Co. Clerk's Office). 20 Sep 1661 - sold to Tys (Matthys) Lubbertse a village plot, land on the p= lain and salt meadow in Flatbush, LI (Town of Flatbush records). 16 Jun 1666 - transferred Midwout land to Bartelt Claessen and Hendrick Kip= (pg. 111-113 Flatbush Twn Rec, 1670-1708, Lib A, p5 of typescript at LI Hi= st Soc made by DeWitt Van Buren, 1936.) 21 Nov 1670 - (Town Records, Book 2, p. 108) "John Lake of Amersford bought= a gray horse a gelding of about 8 years ould" from James Hubbard of Graves= end.=20 1672-1683 - Appears to have lived in Gravesend until he died. 1672 - secured lots 19 and 30 in "west meddow" of Gravesend (Town Records, = Book 3, p.34). 5 May 1673 - (Town Records, Book 4, p. 36) John Lake fined 15s for contempt= of authority and breach of order for "presumptiously kepeth his cattle in = the field to the great damage of his neighbors". 1673 - "26th daye of ye 8th month, Anno Dom. 1673" deed made at Gravesend w= itnessed by "John Lake, Senr" (Town Records, Book 5, p.6). 6d12m 1674 - 2nd Division of 15 acre Lots of Dutch Meadows, John Lake Lots = 18 and 25. (Town Records, Book 3, p.37). 2d1m 1675 - John Lake and Samuel Holmes agreed to exchange with each other = their 15 acre Lots.=C2=A0 John Lake to have Lot 17 and Samuel Holmes to hav= e Lot 25. 10 Dec 1675 - LEHEY, WILLIAM agreed with John Lake to build him a house, 26= by 16 ft., in Gd, as per Gd rec.=C2=A0 Signed his name "Will. nol Lehey." = per Bergen=E2=80=99s Early Settlers. 19 Dec 1675 - "Jan Leeck, resident oat Gravesent" sold "Luyckes Stevense a = certain parcel of land lying in Amsfort... large fifteen morgens" (Flatbush= Town Records, Misc. Vol., p.17). Abt 1677 - (Town Records, Book 3, p. 45) John Lake, Lots 3,10 and 30 of Lan= d upon the Island adjacent to town. 1683 - John Lake appears on the ratable list of Gravesend as John Lake, Sr.= , liable for tax of 17s 3 1/2d on 88 acres, 16 cows, 4 horses and 2 adults;= his sons John and Daniel, were taxed also. (Doc His of NY, vol. 2, p. 509)= . NOTE:=C2=A0 Prior to 1688/9, John is assumed to have died since Ann is name= d as owner of Lots 19 and 9. 1 Mar 1688/9 - (Town Records, Book 3, p. 54) Land eastward of Town in the N= ecks:=C2=A0 Anna Lake, Lots 19 and 9; Daniel Lake, Lots 21 and 17; John Lak= e, Lot 36. Abt 1688/9 - (Town Records, Book 3, p. 56) Anna Lake in possession of Lot 3= 0 and 38 in the North Woods.=C2=A0 Lot 30 is subsequently exchanged with Wi= lliam Goulding for Lot 18.=C2=A0 John Lake (presume Jr.) in possession of L= ot 28 in North Woods. =20 I am copying Wesley Johnston on this email=C2=A0 He moderates the Lake Loya= list Group.=C2=A0 Wesley will give you the particulars on how to join the g= roup as well as how to add your dna kit results.=C2=A0 Wesley, Marshall Lak= e and Craig Kanally have been working overtime these past few years to anal= yze dna kits of any and all Canadian LAKEs to determine where they may fit = within the Loyalist network as well as just who we think John of Gravesend = was and where he came from.=C2=A0 Best guess as of now is perhaps Devonshir= e since we have close matches the Eastlake/Estlicks there.=C2=A0 I'm turnin= g you over to Wesley right now because between still having a bit of residu= al covid fog and dealing with my 99 year old mother-in-law's needs, I'm sti= ll fumbling a bit. I still can't find a link for your James Lake, b.1757 to our Lake line but = if he was also from Dutchess county, as were the Stover women who married i= nto our Lake line, his Lake roots may be from the Rhode Island clan (maybe?= ). Annette=20 p.s.=C2=A0 I'll get back to you soon --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Another dna match Susan Rogers_Thorton (Hough=E2=80=99s Family Tree) goes t= hrough John Lake/Neeltje Claessen. Another dna match amanda_halliwell50 with a Catherine Lake who goes up to J= ohn Lake/Alice Spicer. With so many dna matches leading to these Lakes my James must belong there = somewhere. I also have a dna match with a ladonnabray31 who has Lt. John Lake/Margaret= Snider, Ernestown,=C2=A0 in her tree. I also have dna matches linking me to Lakes in Rhode Island, Maine and New = Brunswick Canada.=20 I hope that, what information I have shared with you, helps.=C2=A0=20 I look forward to hearing from you and seeing what you think. Cathy Sent from my iPad ---------- 2 of 2 ---------- From: Wesley Johnston Date: Jan 20 11:38PM Url: http://groups.google.com/group/loyalist-lake-history/msg/e05aba904b56 Annette wrote "Given what is known from source records regarding John Lake = and Margaret Reade of No. Benfleet, Essex, England, John Lake of Gravesend = is not their son." The Y-DNA agrees with this. The Y-DNA of direct male-line descendants of Jo= hn Lake of Gravesend is in haplgroup=C2=A0R-FT272260 and has as the closest= matches the Eastlikck family of Bratton Clovelly in Devon. At this point, I do not know what haplogroup the Essex Lakes (which means J= ohn Lake and Margaret Reade) belong to so that we cannot rule out a connect= ion if none of that John Lake's Y-DNA descendants have done a Y-DNA test, b= ut so far we have no evidence of a Y-DNA conenction of the Gravesend John L= ake to the Essex Lakes. There is a GREAT deal of misinformation in online trees about the Gravesend= Lake family. Our Loyalist Lake Family History group has set the record str= aight for some of these via DNA, and both Annette Truesdell and Marshall La= ke have done the same with documents. What was published in the book "A History of My People and Yours" has great= ly varying degrees of accuracy. The most accurate book I know of on part of= the Lake family is that of Janet Jeffery and Katherine Andreasen "History = of the James Lake, Jr. Family". =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Wesley=20 On Friday, January 20, 2023 at 03:00:19 PM PST, 'Wesley Johnston' via L= oyalist Lake Family History wrote:= =20 =20 It has been a very bumply start to the year, and I just realized I had ove= rlooked Annette's note from last Saturday. So, I am sending it to the group= now and will see if I have any insights once I read it closely. =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Wesley=20 ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: Annette Truesdell = To: 'cathy baker' Cc: "wwjohnston01@yahoo.c= om" Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2023 at 06:36:34 PM= PSTSubject: RE: Lake family=20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: cathy baker [mailto:marycatherinebaker@hotmail.com]=20 Sent: Friday, January 13, 2023 4:08 PM To: atrue@garlic.com Subject: Lake family=20 Hello Annette, . I have a dna match with an Elizabeth Murray and a JM associated with her tr= ee.=C2=A0 She has both Lake and Stover in her tree.=C2=A0 Her Lake goes up = to John Lake/Margaret Reade through=C2=A0 their son John Lake/Alice Spicer. I also have a dna match with a Carol Millward, managed by PhillipStone69, w= hose tree also goes up to John Lake/Margaret Reade through their son John L= ake/Alice Spicer. Another dna match NB, Beveridge-Bruce family tree also has John Lake/Margar= et Reade through their son John Lake/Alice Spicer. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Cathy, Let me tell you my opinion regarding histories that link the Gravesend Lake= s to Margaret Reade Lake and her son, John Lake.=C2=A0 I've cut and pasted = the data below from my records. MARGARET READE: NAME:=C2=A0 NEG&HR, Vol84#3, Jul 1830, pg 304. Baptized 11 Jul 1598, No. Be= nfleet, England; d. Sep 1672, Ipswich, MA. MARR: abt 1616 John Lake.=C2=A0 Per "NEG&HR", Vol84#3, Jul 1830, pg 304, Jo= hn was baptized 26 Sep 1590, No. Benfleet, Essex, England.=C2=A0 Between 16= 31/1635,=C2=A0 Margaret Reade Lake left John and emigrated with her sisters= and their families to New England, taking daus Ann and Martha.=C2=A0 She l= ived with the family of brother-in-law, Gov. John Winthrop, Jr. at New Lond= on, CT.=C2=A0 John Lake died after 1657 when Margaret Lake rcvd letter from= Rev. Hugh Peter, her step-father from London, "John Lake lives still" but = before 8 Jan 1661.=C2=A0 Margaret Lake wrote from Wenham, MA to brother-in-= law, Gov. Winthrop who was in London:=C2=A0 "Might I not bee to troublesome= to you I would have desired yours to have done mee yr courtesy as to have = inquired concerning my husbands death and how hee ended his dayes as also t= o have inquired of my cousen Thomas Cooke, whether hee knew whether their w= as any thing left me or no... I would desire you inquire whether my sister = Breadcale who dwells in Lee (Leigh) in Essex be liveing..." CHILDREN: JOHN LAKE "NEG&HR" Vol84#3, Jul 1830, pg 316. Baptized 6 Jul 1617 Wickford,= Essex, England.=C2=A0 Mentioned in the will of his grandfather, Edmund Rea= de of Wickford, dated 20 Nov 1623.=C2=A0 The bequest was that if certain la= nds called "Sopers" came into his son,=C2=A0 William's possession, William = Reade "is to give bond to the executrix or overseers of this will to pay L5= 0 apiece to my grandchildren John Lake, Anna Lake, Daniel Epps and Elizabet= h Epps".=C2=A0 Also "To my son-in-law John Lake and my daughter Margaret La= ke, 40s. apiece for rings. To John Lake and Anna Lake, their children, 20s.= apiece.=C2=A0 John is more probable than not the son of Margaret Reade Lak= e who was mentioned as dead by Mrs. Lucy Downing, when she wrote on 30 Jan = 1657/8 from Edinburgh to Fitz John Winthrop:=C2=A0 "Your uncle, Collonell R= eade, was a month or two since with us, ... and said that God had takne a s= onn of his sister Lackes that was with him, and was very hopefull for furth= er preferment."=20 THOMAS LAKE "NEG&HR" Vol84#3, Jul 1830, pg 316.=C2=A0 Baptized 18 Jan 1618/= 19 at Wickford, Essex, England.=C2=A0 Nothing further is known.=C2=A0 Not n= amed in his grandfather, Edmund Reade's will dated 20 Nov 1623, so probably= died as a child before 1623. RICHARD LAKE "NEG&HR" Vol84#3, Jul 1830, pg 316.=C2=A0 Baptized 21 May 1620= , and buried 22 May 1620 at Wickford. ANN/HANNAH "NEG&HR" Vol84#3, Jul 1830, pg 316.=C2=A0 Baptized 3 Jul 1621 at= North Benfleet.=C2=A0 Called Hannah in New England records, d. aft 1675 St= onington, CT. ELIZABETH LAKE "NEG&HR" Vol84#3, Jul 1830, pg 317.=C2=A0 Baptized 5 Jun 162= 3, North Benfleet and buried there 31 Aug 1623. MARTHA LAKE "NEG&HR" v.2, Apr 1848, pg 219.=C2=A0 Baptized 20 Jul 1624,Nort= h Benfleet, d. aft 1687 Ipswich MA. SAMUEL LAKE=C2=A0 "NEG&HR" Vol84#3, Jul 1830, pg 317.=C2=A0 Baptized 29 Mar= 1629 at North Benfleet and buried there 29 Mar 1629.=C2=A0 Note:=C2=A0 the= re is probably a transcription error in the Record as it reads "bapt 29 Mar= 1629; buried there 19 Mar 1629/30". ELIZABETH LAKE=C2=A0 "NEG&HR" Vol84#3, Jul 1830, pg 317.=C2=A0 Baptized 17 = Feb1630 at North Benfleet and probably died in infancy or as a child. DEATH:=C2=A0 The will of Margaret Lake of Ipswich, widow, was made August 3= 0 1672 and proved September 24, 1672. To my daughter Hannah Gallop and her = children, all my land at New London... To my daughter Martha Harris, my tap= estry coverlet and all my apparel not disposed of... To my daughter Martha,= and after her decease to my granddaughter Martha Harris, my gold ring... m= y bed and bedstead...To my granddaughter Elizabeth Harris, one heifer at my= cousin Eppes... To my granddaughter Margaret Harris, my carved box... my b= rass and pewter, and all my household stuff not otherwise disposed. Given what is known from source records regarding John Lake and Margaret Re= ade of No. Benfleet, Essex, England, John Lake of Gravesend is not their so= n.=C2=A0 These were wealthy, educated people of privilege and rank in the m= ilitary and church.=C2=A0 Their son, John appears to have died in 1657/8 wh= ile in the company of Margaret Reade's brother, Col. Thomas Reade according= to the letter from Lucy Downing to Fitz John Winthrop. Our John Lake was a farmer, sometimes carpenter, signed his name with a mar= k, occasionally skipping out on debts and allowing his cows to damage his n= eighbor's fields. When he did have children baptized it was in the Dutch Re= formed Church. Although our John Lake has traditionally been referred to as= "John Lake of Gravesend", he didn=E2=80=99t actually settle there until ab= out 1672.=C2=A0 Prior to that he was residing in Wallbout Cove, Flushing, N= ew Amsterdam, Flatlands and Flatbush.=C2=A0 Per source records regarding Jo= hn Lake "of Gravesend": JOHN LAKE BIRTH: c1615-1622 8 Apr 1643=C2=A0 Rem Jansen leases land for 3 years on Wallabout Cove (area= that became Brooklyn) to=C2=A0 "Jan Lockh" and=C2=A0 "Jan Picces".=C2=A0 I= f this is our John Lake (with John Peek), it would seem that he is in New A= msterdam a few months earlier than Thomas Spicer.=C2=A0 (He would have to h= ave been at least 21 years old to have purchased land, giving him a birth y= ear of 1622 or earlier.)=C2=A0 Note- there is a marriage record in at the N= ew Amsterdam DRC 20 Feb 1650 for "Jan Peeck, j. m., en Marie Volkers, Wede"= (Maria du Trieux, widow of Cornelis Volkertszen.) Abt 1646/47 - John purchases land in Flushing.=C2=A0 On 12 Feb 1653, Robt. = Field gave to his sons a "lot which was formerly John Lake's" which was loc= ated in Flushing. 1647-49, sometime during these years marries Ann Spicer (not Alice).=C2=A0 = If Wm. Stillwell's writings can be relied upon as accurate, the marriage oc= curred in 1649. Abt 1649-1654 - presumed living in New Amsterdam. 20 May 1652 - first record of John Lake in New Amsterdam.=C2=A0 Baptism of = "Metje", dau of "Jan Leeck" at New Amsterdam RDC. Oct 1654 - charged by Jacob Steendam's wife with a debt (quoted from articl= e by Fred Sisser, NYGBR, Jan 1991)=C2=A0 per New Amsterdam court minutes, "= Jan Leeck, notwithstanding arrest and summons... has departed from this cit= y". (Records of New Amsterdam 1:261). Abt 1654-1660 - Living in Flatlands. Jan 1657 - apparently had removed from New Amsterdam to Long Island and is = identified as being "of Amersfoort (Flatland) when "Jan Leyck" contributed = toward Domine Polhemus' salary (F. Sisser article, references ER 1:366). Abt 1660-1672 - Living in Flatbush. 15 May 1660 - purchased farm in Midwout (Middlewout Flatbush) from Margueri= te Provost (Town of Flatbush records, Kings Co. Clerk's Office). 20 Sep 1661 - sold to Tys (Matthys) Lubbertse a village plot, land on the p= lain and salt meadow in Flatbush, LI (Town of Flatbush records). 16 Jun 1666 - transferred Midwout land to Bartelt Claessen and Hendrick Kip= (pg. 111-113 Flatbush Twn Rec, 1670-1708, Lib A, p5 of typescript at LI Hi= st Soc made by DeWitt Van Buren, 1936.) 21 Nov 1670 - (Town Records, Book 2, p. 108) "John Lake of Amersford bought= a gray horse a gelding of about 8 years ould" from James Hubbard of Graves= end.=20 1672-1683 - Appears to have lived in Gravesend until he died. 1672 - secured lots 19 and 30 in "west meddow" of Gravesend (Town Records, = Book 3, p.34). 5 May 1673 - (Town Records, Book 4, p. 36) John Lake fined 15s for contempt= of authority and breach of order for "presumptiously kepeth his cattle in = the field to the great damage of his neighbors". 1673 - "26th daye of ye 8th month, Anno Dom. 1673" deed made at Gravesend w= itnessed by "John Lake, Senr" (Town Records, Book 5, p.6). 6d12m 1674 - 2nd Division of 15 acre Lots of Dutch Meadows, John Lake Lots = 18 and 25. (Town Records, Book 3, p.37). 2d1m 1675 - John Lake and Samuel Holmes agreed to exchange with each other = their 15 acre Lots.=C2=A0 John Lake to have Lot 17 and Samuel Holmes to hav= e Lot 25. 10 Dec 1675 - LEHEY, WILLIAM agreed with John Lake to build him a house, 26= by 16 ft., in Gd, as per Gd rec.=C2=A0 Signed his name "Will. nol Lehey." = per Bergen=E2=80=99s Early Settlers. 19 Dec 1675 - "Jan Leeck, resident oat Gravesent" sold "Luyckes Stevense a = certain parcel of land lying in Amsfort... large fifteen morgens" (Flatbush= Town Records, Misc. Vol., p.17). Abt 1677 - (Town Records, Book 3, p. 45) John Lake, Lots 3,10 and 30 of Lan= d upon the Island adjacent to town. 1683 - John Lake appears on the ratable list of Gravesend as John Lake, Sr.= , liable for tax of 17s 3 1/2d on 88 acres, 16 cows, 4 horses and 2 adults;= his sons John and Daniel, were taxed also. (Doc His of NY, vol. 2, p. 509)= . NOTE:=C2=A0 Prior to 1688/9, John is assumed to have died since Ann is name= d as owner of Lots 19 and 9. 1 Mar 1688/9 - (Town Records, Book 3, p. 54) Land eastward of Town in the N= ecks:=C2=A0 Anna Lake, Lots 19 and 9; Daniel Lake, Lots 21 and 17; John Lak= e, Lot 36. Abt 1688/9 - (Town Records, Book 3, p. 56) Anna Lake in possession of Lot 3= 0 and 38 in the North Woods.=C2=A0 Lot 30 is subsequently exchanged with Wi= lliam Goulding for Lot 18.=C2=A0 John Lake (presume Jr.) in possession of L= ot 28 in North Woods. =20 I am copying Wesley Johnston on this email=C2=A0 He moderates the Lake Loya= list Group.=C2=A0 Wesley will give you the particulars on how to join the g= roup as well as how to add your dna kit results.=C2=A0 Wesley, Marshall Lak= e and Craig Kanally have been working overtime these past few years to anal= yze dna kits of any and all Canadian LAKEs to determine where they may fit = within the Loyalist network as well as just who we think John of Gravesend = was and where he came from.=C2=A0 Best guess as of now is perhaps Devonshir= e since we have close matches the Eastlake/Estlicks there.=C2=A0 I'm turnin= g you over to Wesley right now because between still having a bit of residu= al covid fog and dealing with my 99 year old mother-in-law's needs, I'm sti= ll fumbling a bit. I still can't find a link for your James Lake, b.1757 to our Lake line but = if he was also from Dutchess county, as were the Stover women who married i= nto our Lake line, his Lake roots may be from the Rhode Island clan (maybe?= ). Annette=20 p.s.=C2=A0 I'll get back to you soon --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Another dna match Susan Rogers_Thorton (Hough=E2=80=99s Family Tree) goes t= hrough John Lake/Neeltje Claessen. Another dna match amanda_halliwell50 with a Catherine Lake who goes up to J= ohn Lake/Alice Spicer. With so many dna matches leading to these Lakes my James must belong there = somewhere. I also have a dna match with a ladonnabray31 who has Lt. John Lake/Margaret= Snider, Ernestown,=C2=A0 in her tree. I also have dna matches linking me to Lakes in Rhode Island, Maine and New = Brunswick Canada.=20 I hope that, what information I have shared with you, helps.=C2=A0=20 I look forward to hearing from you and seeing what you think. Cathy Sent from my iPad =20 --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= Loyalist Lake Family History" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to loyalist-lake-history+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/= loyalist-lake-history/1665317743.40116.1674255616380%40mail.yahoo.com. -- You received this digest because you're subscribed to updates for this grou= p. You can change your settings on the group membership page:=20 https://groups.google.com/forum/?utm_source=3Ddigest&utm_medium=3Demail#!= forum/loyalist-lake-history/join . To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it send an em= ail to loyalist-lake-history+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. --0016367f94b4b30060474d22062 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
=20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20
Wesley Johnston <wwjohnston01@yahoo.com>: Jan 20 10:54PM

Cathy gives her Lake connection below.
Cathy, what is your GEDmatch kit number? (Has your Mom tested, since she wo= uld have twice as much Lake DNA as you?) I will add you to our GEDmatch Mul= tiple Kit Analysis tag group.
Craig Kanalley also has a marvelous Google drive spreadsheet where he can f= it you into the big picture.
FYI ... There was no "James Madison Lake". The middle name "= Madison" is a figment of someone's misguided "research".= Our James Lake was simply James Lake.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Wesley
 
----- Forwarded Message ----- From: cathy baker <marycatherinebaker@h= otmail.com>To: Wesley Johnston <wwjohnston01@yahoo.com>Sent: Frida= y, January 20, 2023 at 05:35:13 AM PSTSubject: Lake family
Hello Wesley,
 
I got your email address from Annette Trusdell.=C2=A0 She told me about yo= u and your researching the Lake family.
My Mom was born a Lake but given up for adoption in 1931.=C2=A0 I took a dn= a test with Ancestry and have been building the Lake side of her family. I have up to my 4x Great Grandfather James Lake 1757-26 July 1844 buried i= n Mt. Vernon church cemetery Brantford, Ontario. He was marred to Jane Eliz= abeth Stover and she was his third wife. I don=E2=80=99t know who his paren= ts are.
I have dna matches, with other Lakes, that link to John Lake/Anne Spicer a= nd the Lakes in Gravesend New York.
On a whim I decided to put in John Lake 1728-1835/Margaret Snyder, who cam= e to Ernestown,Ontario, as his parents to see what might show up.=C2=A0 I f= igured if nothing did I could remove them.
Well four dna matches under their sons Christopher 1, John Jacobus Lake 2 = and James Madison Lake 1 showed up.=C2=A0 So there=E2=80=99s a link there I= =E2=80=99m thinking.=C2=A0
 
I would really appreciate any help you could provide me with in finding out= if my James belongs here or not.
 
Thanks, Cathy
 
Sent from my iPad
cathy baker <marycatherinebaker@hotmail.com>: Jan 20 11:38P= M

My Gedmatch kit number is KN9892304
Sadly my Mom passed away in 2014.
 
I tried to access the Google group you sent to me and it says it=E2=80=99s = not available so I can=E2=80=99t see it.
 
I would so love to see where Craig Kanalley can fit me into the Lake family= . Although my Mom knew who her birth Mother was she had passed away severa= l years earlier.
Her birth Mother was Dorothy May Lake 1911-1986. Born in Hamilton, Ontario = daughter of Frank W Lake 1890-1952. His father was James Lake 1864-1920, h= is father was Isaac Lake 1828-1901. Isaac=E2=80=99s father is James Lake 1= 757-1844.
 
 
Cathy
 
Sent from my iPad
 
On Jan 20, 2023, at 5:55 PM, 'Wesley Johnston' via Loyalist Lake Fa= mily History <loyalist-lake-history@googlegroups.com> wrote:
 
=EF=BB=BF
Cathy gives her Lake connection below.
 
Cathy, what is your GEDmatch kit number? (Has your Mom tested, since she wo= uld have twice as much Lake DNA as you?) I will add you to our GEDmatch Mul= tiple Kit Analysis tag group.
 
Craig Kanalley also has a marvelous Google drive spreadsheet where he can f= it you into the big picture.
 
FYI ... There was no "James Madison Lake". The middle name "= Madison" is a figment of someone's misguided "research".= Our James Lake was simply James Lake.
 
Wesley
 
 
----- Forwarded Message -----
From: cathy baker <marycatherinebaker@hotmail.com>
To: Wesley Johnston <wwjohnston01@yahoo.com>
Sent: Friday, January 20, 2023 at 05:35:13 AM PST
Subject: Lake family
 
Hello Wesley,
 
I got your email address from Annette Trusdell. She told me about you and = your researching the Lake family.
My Mom was born a Lake but given up for adoption in 1931. I took a dna tes= t with Ancestry and have been building the Lake side of her family.
I have up to my 4x Great Grandfather James Lake 1757-26 July 1844 buried in= Mt. Vernon church cemetery Brantford, Ontario. He was marred to Jane Eliza= beth Stover and she was his third wife. I don=E2=80=99t know who his parent= s are.
I have dna matches, with other Lakes, that link to John Lake/Anne Spicer an= d the Lakes in Gravesend New York.
On a whim I decided to put in John Lake 1728-1835/Margaret Snyder, who came= to Ernestown,Ontario, as his parents to see what might show up. I figured= if nothing did I could remove them.
Well four dna matches under their sons Christopher 1, John Jacobus Lake 2 a= nd James Madison Lake 1 showed up. So there=E2=80=99s a link there I=E2=80= =99m thinking.
 
I would really appreciate any help you could provide me with in finding out= if my James belongs here or not.
 
Thanks, Cathy
 
Sent from my iPad
 
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Loyalist Lake Family History" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to loyalist-lake-history+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com<mailto:loyali= st-lake-history+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/loyalist-lake-history/1574296130.4= 2353.1674255297432%40mail.yahoo.com<https://groups.google.com/d= /msgid/loyalist-lake-history/1574296130.42353.1674255297432%40mail.yahoo.co= m?utm_medium=3Demail&utm_source=3Dfooter>.
Wesley Johnston <wwjohnston01@yahoo.com>: Jan 20 11:50PM

I will add you to the tag group and see what we find. Thanks very m= uch for including your direct Lake ancestry:
"Her birth Mother was Dorothy May Lake 1911-1986. Born in Hamilton, On= tario daughter of Frank W Lake 1890-1952. =C2=A0His father was James Lake 1= 864-1920, his father was Isaac Lake 1828-1901. =C2=A0Isaac=E2=80=99s father= is James Lake 1757-1844."
 
There is nothing to see for the Google Group. It is solely an e-mail group.=

 
On Friday, January 20, 2023 at 03:38:47 PM PST, cathy baker <marycat= herinebaker@hotmail.com> wrote:

=EF=BB=BFMy Gedmatch kit number is KN9892304Sadly my Mom passed away in 2= 014.
I tried to access the Google group you sent to me and it says it=E2=80=99s = not available so I can=E2=80=99t see it.
I would so love to see where Craig Kanalley can fit me into the Lake family= . =C2=A0Although my Mom knew who her birth Mother was she had passed away s= everal years earlier.Her birth Mother was Dorothy May Lake 1911-1986. Born = in Hamilton, Ontario daughter of Frank W Lake 1890-1952. =C2=A0His father w= as James Lake 1864-1920, his father was Isaac Lake 1828-1901. =C2=A0Isaac= =E2=80=99s father is James Lake 1757-1844.
 
Cathy
Sent from my iPad
 
On Jan 20, 2023, at 5:55 PM, 'Wesley Johnston' via Loyalist Lake Fa= mily History <loyalist-lake-history@googlegroups.com> wrote:
 
 
 
=EF=BB=BFCathy gives her Lake connection below.
Cathy, what is your GEDmatch kit number? (Has your Mom tested, since she wo= uld have twice as much Lake DNA as you?) I will add you to our GEDmatch Mul= tiple Kit Analysis tag group.
Craig Kanalley also has a marvelous Google drive spreadsheet where he can f= it you into the big picture.
FYI ... There was no "James Madison Lake". The middle name "= Madison" is a figment of someone's misguided "research".= Our James Lake was simply James Lake.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Wesley
 
----- Forwarded Message -----From: cathy baker <marycatherinebaker@hotma= il.com>To: Wesley Johnston <wwjohnston01@yahoo.com>Sent: Friday, J= anuary 20, 2023 at 05:35:13 AM PSTSubject: Lake family
Hello Wesley,
 
I got your email address from Annette Trusdell.=C2=A0 She told me about you= and your researching the Lake family.
My Mom was born a Lake but given up for adoption in 1931.=C2=A0 I took a dn= a test with Ancestry and have been building the Lake side of her family. I have up to my 4x Great Grandfather James Lake 1757-26 July 1844 buried in= Mt. Vernon church cemetery Brantford, Ontario. He was marred to Jane Eliza= beth Stover and she was his third wife. I don=E2=80=99t know who his parent= s are.
I have dna matches, with other Lakes, that link to John Lake/Anne Spicer an= d the Lakes in Gravesend New York.
On a whim I decided to put in John Lake 1728-1835/Margaret Snyder, who came= to Ernestown,Ontario, as his parents to see what might show up.=C2=A0 I fi= gured if nothing did I could remove them.
Well four dna matches under their sons Christopher 1, John Jacobus Lake 2 a= nd James Madison Lake 1 showed up.=C2=A0 So there=E2=80=99s a link there I= =E2=80=99m thinking.=C2=A0
 
I would really appreciate any help you could provide me with in finding out= if my James belongs here or not.
 
Thanks, Cathy
 
Sent from my iPad
 
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Loyalist Lake Family History" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail toloyalist-lake-history+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/loyalist-lake-history/1574296130.4= 2353.1674255297432%40mail.yahoo.com.
 
 
 
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Loyalist Lake Family History" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to loyalist-lake-history+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/l= oyalist-lake-history/PH8PR19MB6620A3FAF6BF52004A81B2A4DCC59%40PH8PR19MB6620= .namprd19.prod.outlook.com.
Wesley Johnston <wwjohnston01@yahoo.com>: Jan 21 01:14AM

It turns out we had already identified your DNA as a match worth in= cluding in the tag group. So, I moved your kit to be the reference kit for = the analysis. All of the following is at the default 7 cM threshold. Since = we are talking about connections back in the 1700s, this may be too high a = threshold, but it is the best place to start.
The tag group now has 110 kits of Lake descendants or thier matches that we= have found worth including.
Triangulation
 
Cathy had only 2 triangulations on the X-chromosome with the largest being = 8.8 cM which could be valid but is so small as to require a great deal of w= ork to verify that it is not merely an artifact of genetic recombination. S= o, I am not including these.
Generations MatrixIt has been a while since I ran a Geneations Matrix for t= he tag group. So, I am attaching the spreadsheet of the matrix for all to s= ee how all 110 of us connect.
Here are Cathy's matches among the other 109 kits at the 7 cM threshold= .
 
 
The number in the cell is the DNA-based estimated number of generations tha= t Cathy and that match are from their most recent common ancestor (MRCA), a= ssuming that they connect in only one way. It is extremely important to kee= p in mind that the MRCA is NOT necessarily on the Lake ancestral line of ei= ther person. The connection can be on any of your lines.
The Eastlick match is particularly interesting since this is a Y-DNA tester= whose Y-DNA matches our Gravesend Lake Y-DNA back about 1400 to 1550. At 5= .0 generations to MRCA, we are looking at something on the order of a share= d 3rd great grandparent if both Cathy and G Eastlick are in the same genera= tion of descent from the MRCA. This is far more recent than the Y-DNA conne= ction AND there is no Lake match at all. So, this is a good example of why = NOT to assume the connection is on the Lake ancestral line.
Another way to look at it is this. Each person (Cathy and G Eastlick) has 3= 2 great grandparents. So, if the two of them are in the same generation of = descent from their MRCA, it means that one (or maybe two since the MRCA cou= ld be a husband and wife) of Cathy's 32 is the same as one of G Eastlic= k's 32. So, there a great many possible connections.
In fact, I think the fact that Cathy is not matching any of our many other = Lake descendant kits could mean that her connection with these three Lake d= escendants is through one or more ancestors, possibly the Stover line for e= xample, since Cathy's James Lake married a Stover. (There are multiple = ways in which the Lake and Stover families intermarried as well.)
I do not recall how the three (Kathryn, James Lake, Robert S. Lake) connect= back other than that I think Robert descends from Moses Lake of Washington= County, PA -- more to come in a later e-mail update on Y-DNA.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Wesley
cathy baker <marycatherinebaker@hotmail.com>: Jan 21 02:03A= M

Question for you.
Do you know the last name of Kathryn in the matches? Would it, by chance b= e Sutcliffe? I noticed that she tested with Ancestry and I have a Kathryn = Sutcliffe dna match and she has Lakes in her family tree on Ancestry.
 
Cathy
 
Sent from my iPad
 
On Jan 20, 2023, at 8:15 PM, 'Wesley Johnston' via Loyalist Lake Fa= mily History <loyalist-lake-history@googlegroups.com> wrote:
 
=EF=BB=BF
It turns out we had already identified your DNA as a match worth including = in the tag group. So, I moved your kit to be the reference kit for the anal= ysis. All of the following is at the default 7 cM threshold. Since we are t= alking about connections back in the 1700s, this may be too high a threshol= d, but it is the best place to start.
 
The tag group now has 110 kits of Lake descendants or thier matches that we= have found worth including.
 
Triangulation
 
Cathy had only 2 triangulations on the X-chromosome with the largest being = 8.8 cM which could be valid but is so small as to require a great deal of w= ork to verify that it is not merely an artifact of genetic recombination. S= o, I am not including these.
 
Generations Matrix
It has been a while since I ran a Geneations Matrix for the tag group. So, = I am attaching the spreadsheet of the matrix for all to see how all 110 of = us connect.
 
Here are Cathy's matches among the other 109 kits at the 7 cM threshold= .
 
<1674260240022blob.jpg>
 
 
The number in the cell is the DNA-based estimated number of generations tha= t Cathy and that match are from their most recent common ancestor (MRCA), a= ssuming that they connect in only one way. It is extremely important to kee= p in mind that the MRCA is NOT necessarily on the Lake ancestral line of ei= ther person. The connection can be on any of your lines.
 
The Eastlick match is particularly interesting since this is a Y-DNA tester= whose Y-DNA matches our Gravesend Lake Y-DNA back about 1400 to 1550. At 5= .0 generations to MRCA, we are looking at something on the order of a share= d 3rd great grandparent if both Cathy and G Eastlick are in the same genera= tion of descent from the MRCA. This is far more recent than the Y-DNA conne= ction AND there is no Lake match at all. So, this is a good example of why = NOT to assume the connection is on the Lake ancestral line.
 
Another way to look at it is this. Each person (Cathy and G Eastlick) has 3= 2 great grandparents. So, if the two of them are in the same generation of = descent from their MRCA, it means that one (or maybe two since the MRCA cou= ld be a husband and wife) of Cathy's 32 is the same as one of G Eastlic= k's 32. So, there a great many possible connections.
 
In fact, I think the fact that Cathy is not matching any of our many other = Lake descendant kits could mean that her connection with these three Lake d= escendants is through one or more ancestors, possibly the Stover line for e= xample, since Cathy's James Lake married a Stover. (There are multiple = ways in which the Lake and Stover families intermarried as well.)
 
I do not recall how the three (Kathryn, James Lake, Robert S. Lake) connect= back other than that I think Robert descends from Moses Lake of Washington= County, PA -- more to come in a later e-mail update on Y-DNA.
 
Wesley
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Loyalist Lake Family History" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to loyalist-lake-history+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com<mailto:loyali= st-lake-history+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/loyalist-lake-history/1338073575.6= 6442.1674263669448%40mail.yahoo.com<https://groups.google.com/d= /msgid/loyalist-lake-history/1338073575.66442.1674263669448%40mail.yahoo.co= m?utm_medium=3Demail&utm_source=3Dfooter>.
<Lake-GenMat-n110-2023-01-20.xlsx>
<1674260240022blob.jpg>
dtlake@allwest.net: Jan 20 08:32PM -0700

On 2023-01-20 7:03 pm, cathy baker wrote:
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/loyalist-lake-history/13380= 73575.66442.1674263669448%40mail.yahoo.com?utm_medium=3Demail&utm_sourc= e=3Dfooter
> [2]
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgi= d/loyalist-lake-history/PH8PR19MB6620DAAD8A0A039C124312ADDCCA9%40PH8PR19MB6= 620.namprd19.prod.outlook.com?utm_medium=3Demail&utm_source=3Dfooter  
 
Katherine Andreasen probably.
Wesley Johnston <wwjohnston01@yahoo.com>: Jan 21 02:36PM

You will have to contact Kathryn directly. She is part of a mystery= group of about a dozen matches to each other and to some of our kits (you = can see this in the block they form on the spreadsheet of the Generations M= atrix that I sent out). We have yet to figure out how these connect to us. = I suspect it is on some wife's ancestral line and not on the Lake line,= but that is just a hypothesis. We really do not know.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Wesley
 
On Friday, January 20, 2023 at 06:03:44 PM PST, cathy baker <marycat= herinebaker@hotmail.com> wrote:

Question for you.Do you know the last name of Kathryn in the matches? =C2= =A0Would it, by chance be Sutcliffe? =C2=A0I noticed that she tested with A= ncestry and I have a Kathryn Sutcliffe dna match and she has Lakes in her f= amily tree on Ancestry.
Cathy
 
Sent from my iPad
 
On Jan 20, 2023, at 8:15 PM, 'Wesley Johnston' via Loyalist Lake Fa= mily History <loyalist-lake-history@googlegroups.com> wrote:
 
 
 
=EF=BB=BFIt turns out we had already identified your DNA as a match worth i= ncluding in the tag group. So, I moved your kit to be the reference kit for= the analysis. All of the following is at the default 7 cM threshold. Since= we are talking about connections back in the 1700s, this may be too high a= threshold, but it is the best place to start.
The tag group now has 110 kits of Lake descendants or thier matches that we= have found worth including.
Triangulation
 
Cathy had only 2 triangulations on the X-chromosome with the largest being = 8.8 cM which could be valid but is so small as to require a great deal of w= ork to verify that it is not merely an artifact of genetic recombination. S= o, I am not including these.
Generations MatrixIt has been a while since I ran a Geneations Matrix for t= he tag group. So, I am attaching the spreadsheet of the matrix for all to s= ee how all 110 of us connect.
Here are Cathy's matches among the other 109 kits at the 7 cM threshold= .
<1674260240022blob.jpg>
 
The number in the cell is the DNA-based estimated number of generations tha= t Cathy and that match are from their most recent common ancestor (MRCA), a= ssuming that they connect in only one way. It is extremely important to kee= p in mind that the MRCA is NOT necessarily on the Lake ancestral line of ei= ther person. The connection can be on any of your lines.
The Eastlick match is particularly interesting since this is a Y-DNA tester= whose Y-DNA matches our Gravesend Lake Y-DNA back about 1400 to 1550. At 5= .0 generations to MRCA, we are looking at something on the order of a share= d 3rd great grandparent if both Cathy and G Eastlick are in the same genera= tion of descent from the MRCA. This is far more recent than the Y-DNA conne= ction AND there is no Lake match at all. So, this is a good example of why = NOT to assume the connection is on the Lake ancestral line.
Another way to look at it is this. Each person (Cathy and G Eastlick) has 3= 2 great grandparents. So, if the two of them are in the same generation of = descent from their MRCA, it means that one (or maybe two since the MRCA cou= ld be a husband and wife) of Cathy's 32 is the same as one of G Eastlic= k's 32. So, there a great many possible connections.
In fact, I think the fact that Cathy is not matching any of our many other = Lake descendant kits could mean that her connection with these three Lake d= escendants is through one or more ancestors, possibly the Stover line for e= xample, since Cathy's James Lake married a Stover. (There are multiple = ways in which the Lake and Stover families intermarried as well.)
I do not recall how the three (Kathryn, James Lake, Robert S. Lake) connect= back other than that I think Robert descends from Moses Lake of Washington= County, PA -- more to come in a later e-mail update on Y-DNA.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Wesley
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Loyalist Lake Family History" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail toloyalist-lake-history+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/loyalist-lake-history/1338073575.6= 6442.1674263669448%40mail.yahoo.com.
<Lake-GenMat-n110-2023-01-20.xlsx><1674260240022blob.jpg>
 
 
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Loyalist Lake Family History" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to loyalist-lake-history+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/l= oyalist-lake-history/PH8PR19MB6620DAAD8A0A039C124312ADDCCA9%40PH8PR19MB6620= .namprd19.prod.outlook.com.
Brian Lake <bandslak@sympatico.ca>: Jan 21 10:28AM -0500

Sorry about your mom, I see now I had her in my database. She had a=
brother Frank?
 
I can't remember but did you check my revised kit A310397 ?
 
Also, I must be having a senior moment but what Google Group?=C2=A0 :)
 
 
 
On 2023-01-20 6:38 p.m., cathy baker wrote:
cathy baker <marycatherinebaker@hotmail.com>: Jan 21 04:05P= M

I updated my iPad and it merged several emails into one group, whic= h I hate.
 
My Mom=E2=80=99s birth father was Ewart Clifford Lutz. His children are my= Mom=E2=80=99s half siblings so Frank is her half brother.
 
I did check your Gedmatch number but we don=E2=80=99t share dna.
 
Cathy
 
Sent from my iPad
 
On Jan 21, 2023, at 10:28 AM, Brian Lake <bandslak@sympatico.ca> wrot= e:
 
=EF=BB=BF
 
Sorry about your mom, I see now I had her in my database. She had a brother= Frank?
 
I can't remember but did you check my revised kit A310397 ?
 
Also, I must be having a senior moment but what Google Group? :)
 
 
 
On 2023-01-20 6:38 p.m., cathy baker wrote:
=EF=BB=BFMy Gedmatch kit number is KN9892304
Sadly my Mom passed away in 2014.
 
I tried to access the Google group you sent to me and it says it=E2=80=99s = not available so I can=E2=80=99t see it.
 
I would so love to see where Craig Kanalley can fit me into the Lake family= . Although my Mom knew who her birth Mother was she had passed away severa= l years earlier.
Her birth Mother was Dorothy May Lake 1911-1986. Born in Hamilton, Ontario = daughter of Frank W Lake 1890-1952. His father was James Lake 1864-1920, h= is father was Isaac Lake 1828-1901. Isaac=E2=80=99s father is James Lake 1= 757-1844.
 
 
Cathy
 
Sent from my iPad
 
On Jan 20, 2023, at 5:55 PM, 'Wesley Johnston' via Loyalist Lake Fa= mily History <loyalist-lake-history@googlegroups.com><mailto:loyal= ist-lake-history@googlegroups.com> wrote:
 
=EF=BB=BF
Cathy gives her Lake connection below.
 
Cathy, what is your GEDmatch kit number? (Has your Mom tested, since she wo= uld have twice as much Lake DNA as you?) I will add you to our GEDmatch Mul= tiple Kit Analysis tag group.
 
Craig Kanalley also has a marvelous Google drive spreadsheet where he can f= it you into the big picture.
 
FYI ... There was no "James Madison Lake". The middle name "= Madison" is a figment of someone's misguided "research".= Our James Lake was simply James Lake.
 
Wesley
 
 
----- Forwarded Message -----
From: cathy baker <marycatherinebaker@hotmail.com><mailto:marycath= erinebaker@hotmail.com>
To: Wesley Johnston <wwjohnston01@yahoo.com><mailto:wwjohnston01@y= ahoo.com>
Sent: Friday, January 20, 2023 at 05:35:13 AM PST
Subject: Lake family
 
Hello Wesley,
 
I got your email address from Annette Trusdell. She told me about you and = your researching the Lake family.
My Mom was born a Lake but given up for adoption in 1931. I took a dna tes= t with Ancestry and have been building the Lake side of her family.
I have up to my 4x Great Grandfather James Lake 1757-26 July 1844 buried in= Mt. Vernon church cemetery Brantford, Ontario. He was marred to Jane Eliza= beth Stover and she was his third wife. I don=E2=80=99t know who his parent= s are.
I have dna matches, with other Lakes, that link to John Lake/Anne Spicer an= d the Lakes in Gravesend New York.
On a whim I decided to put in John Lake 1728-1835/Margaret Snyder, who came= to Ernestown,Ontario, as his parents to see what might show up. I figured= if nothing did I could remove them.
Well four dna matches under their sons Christopher 1, John Jacobus Lake 2 a= nd James Madison Lake 1 showed up. So there=E2=80=99s a link there I=E2=80= =99m thinking.
 
I would really appreciate any help you could provide me with in finding out= if my James belongs here or not.
 
Thanks, Cathy
 
Sent from my iPad
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Loyalist Lake Family History" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to loyalist-lake-history+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com<mailto:loyali= st-lake-history+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/loyalist-lake-history/1574296130.4= 2353.1674255297432%40mail.yahoo.com<https://groups.google.com/d= /msgid/loyalist-lake-history/1574296130.42353.1674255297432%40mail.yahoo.co= m?utm_medium=3Demail&utm_source=3Dfooter>.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Loyalist Lake Family History" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to loyalist-lake-history+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com<mailto:loyali= st-lake-history+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/l= oyalist-lake-history/PH8PR19MB6620A3FAF6BF52004A81B2A4DCC59%40PH8PR19MB6620= .namprd19.prod.outlook.com<htt= ps://groups.google.com/d/msgid/loyalist-lake-history/PH8PR19MB6620A3FAF6BF5= 2004A81B2A4DCC59%40PH8PR19MB6620.namprd19.prod.outlook.com?utm_medium=3Dema= il&utm_source=3Dfooter>.
 
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Loyalist Lake Family History" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to loyalist-lake-history+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com<mailto:loyali= st-lake-history+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/loyalist-lake-history/afe82c12= -fb6c-fcdb-1901-37c2e78b6b65%40sympatico.ca<https://groups.= google.com/d/msgid/loyalist-lake-history/afe82c12-fb6c-fcdb-1901-37c2e78b6b= 65%40sympatico.ca?utm_medium=3Demail&utm_source=3Dfooter>.
Wesley Johnston <wwjohnston01@yahoo.com>: Jan 21 04:25PM

Brian, your kit A310397 is in the tag group but did not match Cathy= at the 7 cM threshold.
This Loyalist Lake Family History group is technically a Google Group but i= s really only an e-mail group within Google Groups.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Wesley
 
On Saturday, January 21, 2023 at 07:28:15 AM PST, Brian Lake <bandsl= ak@sympatico.ca> wrote:


Sorry about your mom, I see now I had her in my database. She had a brother= Frank?

I can't remember but did you check my revised kit A310397 ?

Also, I must be having a senior moment but what Google Group?=C2=A0 :)

 


 

On 2023-01-20 6:38 p.m., cathy baker wrote:


=EF=BB=BFMy Gedmatch kit number is KN9892304 Sadly my Mom passed away in 20= 14.
I tried to access the Google group you sent to me and it says it=E2=80=99= s not available so I can=E2=80=99t see it.
I would so love to see where Craig Kanalley can fit me into the Lake fami= ly. =C2=A0Although my Mom knew who her birth Mother was she had passed away= several years earlier. Her birth Mother was Dorothy May Lake 1911-1986. Bo= rn in Hamilton, Ontario daughter of Frank W Lake 1890-1952. =C2=A0His fathe= r was James Lake 1864-1920, his father was Isaac Lake 1828-1901. =C2=A0Isaa= c=E2=80=99s father is James Lake 1757-1844.

Cathy
Sent from my iPad

On Jan 20, 2023, at 5:55 PM, 'Wesley Johnston' via Loyalist Lake Fa= mily History <loyalist-lake-history@googlegroups.com> wrote:



=EF=BB=BF Cathy gives her Lake connection below.
Cathy, what is your GEDmatch kit number? (Has your Mom tested, since she = would have twice as much Lake DNA as you?) I will add you to our GEDmatch M= ultiple Kit Analysis tag group.
Craig Kanalley also has a marvelous Google drive spreadsheet where he can= fit you into the big picture.
FYI ... There was no "James Madison Lake". The middle name &quo= t;Madison" is a figment of someone's misguided "research"= ;. Our James Lake was simply James Lake.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Wesley

----- Forwarded Message ----- From: cathy baker <marycatherinebaker= @hotmail.com> To: Wesley Johnston <wwjohnston01@yahoo.com> Sent: F= riday, January 20, 2023 at 05:35:13 AM PST Subject: Lake family
Hello Wesley,

I got your email address from Annette Trusdell.=C2=A0 She told me about y= ou and your researching the Lake family.
My Mom was born a Lake but given up for adoption in 1931.=C2=A0 I took a = dna test with Ancestry and have been building the Lake side of her family.<= br /> I have up to my 4x Great Grandfather James Lake 1757-26 July 1844 buried = in Mt. Vernon church cemetery Brantford, Ontario. He was marred to Jane Eli= zabeth Stover and she was his third wife. I don=E2=80=99t know who his pare= nts are.
I have dna matches, with other Lakes, that link to John Lake/Anne Spicer = and the Lakes in Gravesend New York.
On a whim I decided to put in John Lake 1728-1835/Margaret Snyder, who ca= me to Ernestown,Ontario, as his parents to see what might show up.=C2=A0 I = figured if nothing did I could remove them.
Well four dna matches under their sons Christopher 1, John Jacobus Lake 2= and James Madison Lake 1 showed up.=C2=A0 So there=E2=80=99s a link there = I=E2=80=99m thinking.=C2=A0

I would really appreciate any help you could provide me with in finding o= ut if my James belongs here or not.

Thanks, Cathy

Sent from my iPad --
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups = "Loyalist Lake Family History" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an = email to loyalist-lake-history+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/loyalist-lake-history/1574296130.= 42353.1674255297432%40mail.yahoo.com.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups = "Loyalist Lake Family History" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an = email to loyalist-lake-history+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/= loyalist-lake-history/PH8PR19MB6620A3FAF6BF52004A81B2A4DCC59%40PH8PR19MB662= 0.namprd19.prod.outlook.com.

 
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Loyalist Lake Family History" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to loyalist-lake-history+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/loyalist-lake-history/afe82c12= -fb6c-fcdb-1901-37c2e78b6b65%40sympatico.ca.
=20 =20 =20
Wesley Johnston <wwjohnston01@yahoo.com>: Jan 21 01:44AM

Last week, Family Tree DNA published a beta version of a new featur= e of their Discover tool for Y-DNA analysis. The new feature is a Time Tree= for groups. Here is how it looks for our Lake Y-DNA project administered b= y Marshall Lake.
 
 
Clearly the Maryland Lakes and the Gravesend Lakes are not at all recently = related. Their connection is about 5,000 years ago. Removing the Maryland L= akes focuses the chart on just the Gravesend Lakes.
 
The dashed lines with vertical bars at the end are estimates for the time p= eriod for each SNP. So, R-FT264782 formed when a mutation happened sometime= from about 1300 to sometime about 1690 with the most probable date being a= bout 1530. This is the SNP that defines our Lake family.
John Lakes of Gravesend has two proven descendants, and they=C2=A0 are both= positive for R-FT270177 which formed from about 1550 to about 1900 but mos= t probably about 1750 -- well after the death of John Lake of Gravesend. The Pennsylvania Lakes are all R-FT344844 which formed after R-FT264782 but= sometime in the period 1300 to 1730, most probably about 1570.
So, for a time these two branches had the same R-FT264782, but both branche= s then had later mutations that separated them. We really cannot tell from = this whether the PA branch descend from John Lake or not since the ranges a= re too broad. We need more Y-DNA testers to try to narrow this down.
There is a related project -- the Lake-Eastlake project. Here is the time t= ree for that project.
Our Lake kits are above those of a different branch of Eastlick kits. So, o= ur John Lake of Gravesend and also the PA Lakes all descend from a common a= ncestor with these Eastlicks. And it turns out that the Eastlicks have been= able to identify their origin -- Bratton Clovelly NE of Dartmoor in Devons= hire. So, we know that our Lakes of Gravesend came from Devon. There is no = way to know who our John Lake's father was -- and might never be a way.= But as more Y-DNA tests of the Lakes and Eastlicks are done, we may have m= ore clarity about how we connect.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Wesley
=20 =20 =20 =20
Wesley Johnston <wwjohnston01@yahoo.com>: Jan 20 11:00PM

It has been a very bumply start to the year, and I just realized I = had overlooked Annette's note from last Saturday. So, I am sending it t= o the group now and will see if I have any insights once I read it closely.=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Wesley
 
----- Forwarded Message ----- From: Annette Truesdell <atrue@garlic.c= om>To: 'cathy baker' <marycatherinebaker@hotmail.com>Cc: &= quot;wwjohnston01@yahoo.com" <wwjohnston01@yahoo.com>Sent: Satur= day, January 14, 2023 at 06:36:34 PM PSTSubject: RE: Lake family

 
-----Original Message-----
From: cathy baker [mailto:marycatherinebaker@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2023 4:08 PM
To: atrue@garlic.com
Subject: Lake family
 
Hello Annette,
.
 
I have a dna match with an Elizabeth Murray and a JM associated with her tr= ee.=C2=A0 She has both Lake and Stover in her tree.=C2=A0 Her Lake goes up = to John Lake/Margaret Reade through=C2=A0 their son John Lake/Alice Spicer.=
I also have a dna match with a Carol Millward, managed by PhillipStone69, w= hose tree also goes up to John Lake/Margaret Reade through their son John L= ake/Alice Spicer.
Another dna match NB, Beveridge-Bruce family tree also has John Lake/Margar= et Reade through their son John Lake/Alice Spicer.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Cathy,
Let me tell you my opinion regarding histories that link the Gravesend Lake= s to Margaret Reade Lake and her son, John Lake.=C2=A0 I've cut and pas= ted the data below from my records.
 
MARGARET READE:
NAME:=C2=A0 NEG&HR, Vol84#3, Jul 1830, pg 304. Baptized 11 Jul 1598, No= . Benfleet, England; d. Sep 1672, Ipswich, MA.
MARR: abt 1616 John Lake.=C2=A0 Per "NEG&HR", Vol84#3, Jul 18= 30, pg 304, John was baptized 26 Sep 1590, No. Benfleet, Essex, England.=C2= =A0 Between 1631/1635,=C2=A0 Margaret Reade Lake left John and emigrated wi= th her sisters and their families to New England, taking daus Ann and Marth= a.=C2=A0 She lived with the family of brother-in-law, Gov. John Winthrop, J= r. at New London, CT.=C2=A0 John Lake died after 1657 when Margaret Lake rc= vd letter from Rev. Hugh Peter, her step-father from London, "John Lak= e lives still" but before 8 Jan 1661.=C2=A0 Margaret Lake wrote from W= enham, MA to brother-in-law, Gov. Winthrop who was in London:=C2=A0 "M= ight I not bee to troublesome to you I would have desired yours to have don= e mee yr courtesy as to have inquired concerning my husbands death and how = hee ended his dayes as also to have inquired of my cousen Thomas Cooke, whe= ther hee knew whether their was any thing left me or no... I would desire y= ou inquire whether my sister Breadcale who dwells in Lee (Leigh) in Essex be liveing..."
CHILDREN:
JOHN LAKE "NEG&HR" Vol84#3, Jul 1830, pg 316. Baptized 6 Jul = 1617 Wickford, Essex, England.=C2=A0 Mentioned in the will of his grandfath= er, Edmund Reade of Wickford, dated 20 Nov 1623.=C2=A0 The bequest was that= if certain lands called "Sopers" came into his son,=C2=A0 Willia= m's possession, William Reade "is to give bond to the executrix or= overseers of this will to pay L50 apiece to my grandchildren John Lake, An= na Lake, Daniel Epps and Elizabeth Epps".=C2=A0 Also "To my son-i= n-law John Lake and my daughter Margaret Lake, 40s. apiece for rings. To Jo= hn Lake and Anna Lake, their children, 20s. apiece.=C2=A0 John is more prob= able than not the son of Margaret Reade Lake who was mentioned as dead by M= rs. Lucy Downing, when she wrote on 30 Jan 1657/8 from Edinburgh to Fitz Jo= hn Winthrop:=C2=A0 "Your uncle, Collonell Reade, was a month or two si= nce with us, ... and said that God had takne a sonn of his sister Lackes th= at was with him, and was very hopefull for further preferment."
THOMAS LAKE "NEG&HR" Vol84#3, Jul 1830, pg 316.=C2=A0 Baptize= d 18 Jan 1618/19 at Wickford, Essex, England.=C2=A0 Nothing further is know= n.=C2=A0 Not named in his grandfather, Edmund Reade's will dated 20 Nov= 1623, so probably died as a child before 1623.
RICHARD LAKE "NEG&HR" Vol84#3, Jul 1830, pg 316.=C2=A0 Baptiz= ed 21 May 1620, and buried 22 May 1620 at Wickford.
ANN/HANNAH "NEG&HR" Vol84#3, Jul 1830, pg 316.=C2=A0 Baptized= 3 Jul 1621 at North Benfleet.=C2=A0 Called Hannah in New England records, = d. aft 1675 Stonington, CT.
ELIZABETH LAKE "NEG&HR" Vol84#3, Jul 1830, pg 317.=C2=A0 Bapt= ized 5 Jun 1623, North Benfleet and buried there 31 Aug 1623.
MARTHA LAKE "NEG&HR" v.2, Apr 1848, pg 219.=C2=A0 Baptized 20= Jul 1624,North Benfleet, d. aft 1687 Ipswich MA.
SAMUEL LAKE=C2=A0 "NEG&HR" Vol84#3, Jul 1830, pg 317.=C2=A0 B= aptized 29 Mar 1629 at North Benfleet and buried there 29 Mar 1629.=C2=A0 N= ote:=C2=A0 there is probably a transcription error in the Record as it read= s "bapt 29 Mar 1629; buried there 19 Mar 1629/30".
ELIZABETH LAKE=C2=A0 "NEG&HR" Vol84#3, Jul 1830, pg 317.=C2= =A0 Baptized 17 Feb1630 at North Benfleet and probably died in infancy or a= s a child.
DEATH:=C2=A0 The will of Margaret Lake of Ipswich, widow, was made August 3= 0 1672 and proved September 24, 1672. To my daughter Hannah Gallop and her = children, all my land at New London... To my daughter Martha Harris, my tap= estry coverlet and all my apparel not disposed of... To my daughter Martha,= and after her decease to my granddaughter Martha Harris, my gold ring... m= y bed and bedstead...To my granddaughter Elizabeth Harris, one heifer at my= cousin Eppes... To my granddaughter Margaret Harris, my carved box... my b= rass and pewter, and all my household stuff not otherwise disposed.
 
 
Given what is known from source records regarding John Lake and Margaret Re= ade of No. Benfleet, Essex, England, John Lake of Gravesend is not their so= n.=C2=A0 These were wealthy, educated people of privilege and rank in the m= ilitary and church.=C2=A0 Their son, John appears to have died in 1657/8 wh= ile in the company of Margaret Reade's brother, Col. Thomas Reade accor= ding to the letter from Lucy Downing to Fitz John Winthrop.
 
Our John Lake was a farmer, sometimes carpenter, signed his name with a mar= k, occasionally skipping out on debts and allowing his cows to damage his n= eighbor's fields. When he did have children baptized it was in the Dutc= h Reformed Church. Although our John Lake has traditionally been referred t= o as "John Lake of Gravesend", he didn=E2=80=99t actually settle = there until about 1672.=C2=A0 Prior to that he was residing in Wallbout Cov= e, Flushing, New Amsterdam, Flatlands and Flatbush.=C2=A0 Per source record= s regarding John Lake "of Gravesend":
JOHN LAKE
BIRTH: c1615-1622
8 Apr 1643=C2=A0 Rem Jansen leases land for 3 years on Wallabout Cove (area= that became Brooklyn) to=C2=A0 "Jan Lockh" and=C2=A0 "Jan P= icces".=C2=A0 If this is our John Lake (with John Peek), it would seem= that he is in New Amsterdam a few months earlier than Thomas Spicer.=C2=A0= (He would have to have been at least 21 years old to have purchased land, = giving him a birth year of 1622 or earlier.)=C2=A0 Note- there is a marriag= e record in at the New Amsterdam DRC 20 Feb 1650 for "Jan Peeck, j. m.= , en Marie Volkers, Wede" (Maria du Trieux, widow of Cornelis Volkerts= zen.)
Abt 1646/47 - John purchases land in Flushing.=C2=A0 On 12 Feb 1653, Robt. = Field gave to his sons a "lot which was formerly John Lake's"= which was located in Flushing.
1647-49, sometime during these years marries Ann Spicer (not Alice).=C2=A0 = If Wm. Stillwell's writings can be relied upon as accurate, the marriag= e occurred in 1649.
Abt 1649-1654 - presumed living in New Amsterdam.
20 May 1652 - first record of John Lake in New Amsterdam.=C2=A0 Baptism of = "Metje", dau of "Jan Leeck" at New Amsterdam RDC.
Oct 1654 - charged by Jacob Steendam's wife with a debt (quoted from ar= ticle by Fred Sisser, NYGBR, Jan 1991)=C2=A0 per New Amsterdam court minute= s, "Jan Leeck, notwithstanding arrest and summons... has departed from= this city". (Records of New Amsterdam 1:261).
Abt 1654-1660 - Living in Flatlands.
Jan 1657 - apparently had removed from New Amsterdam to Long Island and is = identified as being "of Amersfoort (Flatland) when "Jan Leyck&quo= t; contributed toward Domine Polhemus' salary (F. Sisser article, refer= ences ER 1:366).
Abt 1660-1672 - Living in Flatbush.
15 May 1660 - purchased farm in Midwout (Middlewout Flatbush) from Margueri= te Provost (Town of Flatbush records, Kings Co. Clerk's Office).
20 Sep 1661 - sold to Tys (Matthys) Lubbertse a village plot, land on the p= lain and salt meadow in Flatbush, LI (Town of Flatbush records).
16 Jun 1666 - transferred Midwout land to Bartelt Claessen and Hendrick Kip= (pg. 111-113 Flatbush Twn Rec, 1670-1708, Lib A, p5 of typescript at LI Hi= st Soc made by DeWitt Van Buren, 1936.)
21 Nov 1670 - (Town Records, Book 2, p. 108) "John Lake of Amersford b= ought a gray horse a gelding of about 8 years ould" from James Hubbard= of Gravesend.
1672-1683 - Appears to have lived in Gravesend until he died.
1672 - secured lots 19 and 30 in "west meddow" of Gravesend (Town= Records, Book 3, p.34).
5 May 1673 - (Town Records, Book 4, p. 36) John Lake fined 15s for contempt= of authority and breach of order for "presumptiously kepeth his cattl= e in the field to the great damage of his neighbors".
1673 - "26th daye of ye 8th month, Anno Dom. 1673" deed made at G= ravesend witnessed by "John Lake, Senr" (Town Records, Book 5, p.= 6).
6d12m 1674 - 2nd Division of 15 acre Lots of Dutch Meadows, John Lake Lots = 18 and 25. (Town Records, Book 3, p.37).
2d1m 1675 - John Lake and Samuel Holmes agreed to exchange with each other = their 15 acre Lots.=C2=A0 John Lake to have Lot 17 and Samuel Holmes to hav= e Lot 25.
10 Dec 1675 - LEHEY, WILLIAM agreed with John Lake to build him a house, 26= by 16 ft., in Gd, as per Gd rec.=C2=A0 Signed his name "Will. nol Leh= ey." per Bergen=E2=80=99s Early Settlers.
19 Dec 1675 - "Jan Leeck, resident oat Gravesent" sold "Luyc= kes Stevense a certain parcel of land lying in Amsfort... large fifteen mor= gens" (Flatbush Town Records, Misc. Vol., p.17).
Abt 1677 - (Town Records, Book 3, p. 45) John Lake, Lots 3,10 and 30 of Lan= d upon the Island adjacent to town.
1683 - John Lake appears on the ratable list of Gravesend as John Lake, Sr.= , liable for tax of 17s 3 1/2d on 88 acres, 16 cows, 4 horses and 2 adults;= his sons John and Daniel, were taxed also. (Doc His of NY, vol. 2, p. 509)= .
NOTE:=C2=A0 Prior to 1688/9, John is assumed to have died since Ann is name= d as owner of Lots 19 and 9.
1 Mar 1688/9 - (Town Records, Book 3, p. 54) Land eastward of Town in the N= ecks:=C2=A0 Anna Lake, Lots 19 and 9; Daniel Lake, Lots 21 and 17; John Lak= e, Lot 36.
Abt 1688/9 - (Town Records, Book 3, p. 56) Anna Lake in possession of Lot 3= 0 and 38 in the North Woods.=C2=A0 Lot 30 is subsequently exchanged with Wi= lliam Goulding for Lot 18.=C2=A0 John Lake (presume Jr.) in possession of L= ot 28 in North Woods.
 

I am copying Wesley Johnston on this email=C2=A0 He moderates the Lake Loya= list Group.=C2=A0 Wesley will give you the particulars on how to join the g= roup as well as how to add your dna kit results.=C2=A0 Wesley, Marshall Lak= e and Craig Kanally have been working overtime these past few years to anal= yze dna kits of any and all Canadian LAKEs to determine where they may fit = within the Loyalist network as well as just who we think John of Gravesend = was and where he came from.=C2=A0 Best guess as of now is perhaps Devonshir= e since we have close matches the Eastlake/Estlicks there.=C2=A0 I'm tu= rning you over to Wesley right now because between still having a bit of re= sidual covid fog and dealing with my 99 year old mother-in-law's needs,= I'm still fumbling a bit.
 
I still can't find a link for your James Lake, b.1757 to our Lake line = but if he was also from Dutchess county, as were the Stover women who marri= ed into our Lake line, his Lake roots may be from the Rhode Island clan (ma= ybe?).
Annette
p.s.=C2=A0 I'll get back to you soon
---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
 
 
Another dna match Susan Rogers_Thorton (Hough=E2=80=99s Family Tree) goes t= hrough John Lake/Neeltje Claessen.
Another dna match amanda_halliwell50 with a Catherine Lake who goes up to J= ohn Lake/Alice Spicer.
With so many dna matches leading to these Lakes my James must belong there = somewhere.
I also have a dna match with a ladonnabray31 who has Lt. John Lake/Margaret= Snider, Ernestown,=C2=A0 in her tree.
I also have dna matches linking me to Lakes in Rhode Island, Maine and New = Brunswick Canada.
 
I hope that, what information I have shared with you, helps.=C2=A0
I look forward to hearing from you and seeing what you think.
 
Cathy
 
 
Sent from my iPad
Wesley Johnston <wwjohnston01@yahoo.com>: Jan 20 11:38PM

Annette wrote "Given what is known from source records regardi= ng John Lake and Margaret Reade of No. Benfleet, Essex, England, John Lake = of Gravesend is not their son."
The Y-DNA agrees with this. The Y-DNA of direct male-line descendants of Jo= hn Lake of Gravesend is in haplgroup=C2=A0R-FT272260 and has as the closest= matches the Eastlikck family of Bratton Clovelly in Devon.
At this point, I do not know what haplogroup the Essex Lakes (which means J= ohn Lake and Margaret Reade) belong to so that we cannot rule out a connect= ion if none of that John Lake's Y-DNA descendants have done a Y-DNA tes= t, but so far we have no evidence of a Y-DNA conenction of the Gravesend Jo= hn Lake to the Essex Lakes.
There is a GREAT deal of misinformation in online trees about the Gravesend= Lake family. Our Loyalist Lake Family History group has set the record str= aight for some of these via DNA, and both Annette Truesdell and Marshall La= ke have done the same with documents.
What was published in the book "A History of My People and Yours"= has greatly varying degrees of accuracy. The most accurate book I know of = on part of the Lake family is that of Janet Jeffery and Katherine Andreasen= "History of the James Lake, Jr. Family".
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Wesley
 
On Friday, January 20, 2023 at 03:00:19 PM PST, 'Wesley Johnston= 9; via Loyalist Lake Family History <loyalist-lake-history@googlegroups.= com> wrote:

It has been a very bumply start to the year, and I just realized I had ove= rlooked Annette's note from last Saturday. So, I am sending it to the g= roup now and will see if I have any insights once I read it closely.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Wesley
 
----- Forwarded Message ----- From: Annette Truesdell <atrue@garlic.c= om>To: 'cathy baker' <marycatherinebaker@hotmail.com>Cc: &= quot;wwjohnston01@yahoo.com" <wwjohnston01@yahoo.com>Sent: Satur= day, January 14, 2023 at 06:36:34 PM PSTSubject: RE: Lake family

 
-----Original Message-----
From: cathy baker [mailto:marycatherinebaker@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, January 13, 2023 4:08 PM
To: atrue@garlic.com
Subject: Lake family
 
Hello Annette,
.
 
I have a dna match with an Elizabeth Murray and a JM associated with her tr= ee.=C2=A0 She has both Lake and Stover in her tree.=C2=A0 Her Lake goes up = to John Lake/Margaret Reade through=C2=A0 their son John Lake/Alice Spicer.=
I also have a dna match with a Carol Millward, managed by PhillipStone69, w= hose tree also goes up to John Lake/Margaret Reade through their son John L= ake/Alice Spicer.
Another dna match NB, Beveridge-Bruce family tree also has John Lake/Margar= et Reade through their son John Lake/Alice Spicer.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Cathy,
Let me tell you my opinion regarding histories that link the Gravesend Lake= s to Margaret Reade Lake and her son, John Lake.=C2=A0 I've cut and pas= ted the data below from my records.
 
MARGARET READE:
NAME:=C2=A0 NEG&HR, Vol84#3, Jul 1830, pg 304. Baptized 11 Jul 1598, No= . Benfleet, England; d. Sep 1672, Ipswich, MA.
MARR: abt 1616 John Lake.=C2=A0 Per "NEG&HR", Vol84#3, Jul 18= 30, pg 304, John was baptized 26 Sep 1590, No. Benfleet, Essex, England.=C2= =A0 Between 1631/1635,=C2=A0 Margaret Reade Lake left John and emigrated wi= th her sisters and their families to New England, taking daus Ann and Marth= a.=C2=A0 She lived with the family of brother-in-law, Gov. John Winthrop, J= r. at New London, CT.=C2=A0 John Lake died after 1657 when Margaret Lake rc= vd letter from Rev. Hugh Peter, her step-father from London, "John Lak= e lives still" but before 8 Jan 1661.=C2=A0 Margaret Lake wrote from W= enham, MA to brother-in-law, Gov. Winthrop who was in London:=C2=A0 "M= ight I not bee to troublesome to you I would have desired yours to have don= e mee yr courtesy as to have inquired concerning my husbands death and how = hee ended his dayes as also to have inquired of my cousen Thomas Cooke, whe= ther hee knew whether their was any thing left me or no... I would desire y= ou inquire whether my sister Breadcale who dwells in Lee (Leigh) in Essex be liveing..."
CHILDREN:
JOHN LAKE "NEG&HR" Vol84#3, Jul 1830, pg 316. Baptized 6 Jul = 1617 Wickford, Essex, England.=C2=A0 Mentioned in the will of his grandfath= er, Edmund Reade of Wickford, dated 20 Nov 1623.=C2=A0 The bequest was that= if certain lands called "Sopers" came into his son,=C2=A0 Willia= m's possession, William Reade "is to give bond to the executrix or= overseers of this will to pay L50 apiece to my grandchildren John Lake, An= na Lake, Daniel Epps and Elizabeth Epps".=C2=A0 Also "To my son-i= n-law John Lake and my daughter Margaret Lake, 40s. apiece for rings. To Jo= hn Lake and Anna Lake, their children, 20s. apiece.=C2=A0 John is more prob= able than not the son of Margaret Reade Lake who was mentioned as dead by M= rs. Lucy Downing, when she wrote on 30 Jan 1657/8 from Edinburgh to Fitz Jo= hn Winthrop:=C2=A0 "Your uncle, Collonell Reade, was a month or two si= nce with us, ... and said that God had takne a sonn of his sister Lackes th= at was with him, and was very hopefull for further preferment."
THOMAS LAKE "NEG&HR" Vol84#3, Jul 1830, pg 316.=C2=A0 Baptize= d 18 Jan 1618/19 at Wickford, Essex, England.=C2=A0 Nothing further is know= n.=C2=A0 Not named in his grandfather, Edmund Reade's will dated 20 Nov= 1623, so probably died as a child before 1623.
RICHARD LAKE "NEG&HR" Vol84#3, Jul 1830, pg 316.=C2=A0 Baptiz= ed 21 May 1620, and buried 22 May 1620 at Wickford.
ANN/HANNAH "NEG&HR" Vol84#3, Jul 1830, pg 316.=C2=A0 Baptized= 3 Jul 1621 at North Benfleet.=C2=A0 Called Hannah in New England records, = d. aft 1675 Stonington, CT.
ELIZABETH LAKE "NEG&HR" Vol84#3, Jul 1830, pg 317.=C2=A0 Bapt= ized 5 Jun 1623, North Benfleet and buried there 31 Aug 1623.
MARTHA LAKE "NEG&HR" v.2, Apr 1848, pg 219.=C2=A0 Baptized 20= Jul 1624,North Benfleet, d. aft 1687 Ipswich MA.
SAMUEL LAKE=C2=A0 "NEG&HR" Vol84#3, Jul 1830, pg 317.=C2=A0 B= aptized 29 Mar 1629 at North Benfleet and buried there 29 Mar 1629.=C2=A0 N= ote:=C2=A0 there is probably a transcription error in the Record as it read= s "bapt 29 Mar 1629; buried there 19 Mar 1629/30".
ELIZABETH LAKE=C2=A0 "NEG&HR" Vol84#3, Jul 1830, pg 317.=C2= =A0 Baptized 17 Feb1630 at North Benfleet and probably died in infancy or a= s a child.
DEATH:=C2=A0 The will of Margaret Lake of Ipswich, widow, was made August 3= 0 1672 and proved September 24, 1672. To my daughter Hannah Gallop and her = children, all my land at New London... To my daughter Martha Harris, my tap= estry coverlet and all my apparel not disposed of... To my daughter Martha,= and after her decease to my granddaughter Martha Harris, my gold ring... m= y bed and bedstead...To my granddaughter Elizabeth Harris, one heifer at my= cousin Eppes... To my granddaughter Margaret Harris, my carved box... my b= rass and pewter, and all my household stuff not otherwise disposed.
 
 
Given what is known from source records regarding John Lake and Margaret Re= ade of No. Benfleet, Essex, England, John Lake of Gravesend is not their so= n.=C2=A0 These were wealthy, educated people of privilege and rank in the m= ilitary and church.=C2=A0 Their son, John appears to have died in 1657/8 wh= ile in the company of Margaret Reade's brother, Col. Thomas Reade accor= ding to the letter from Lucy Downing to Fitz John Winthrop.
 
Our John Lake was a farmer, sometimes carpenter, signed his name with a mar= k, occasionally skipping out on debts and allowing his cows to damage his n= eighbor's fields. When he did have children baptized it was in the Dutc= h Reformed Church. Although our John Lake has traditionally been referred t= o as "John Lake of Gravesend", he didn=E2=80=99t actually settle = there until about 1672.=C2=A0 Prior to that he was residing in Wallbout Cov= e, Flushing, New Amsterdam, Flatlands and Flatbush.=C2=A0 Per source record= s regarding John Lake "of Gravesend":
JOHN LAKE
BIRTH: c1615-1622
8 Apr 1643=C2=A0 Rem Jansen leases land for 3 years on Wallabout Cove (area= that became Brooklyn) to=C2=A0 "Jan Lockh" and=C2=A0 "Jan P= icces".=C2=A0 If this is our John Lake (with John Peek), it would seem= that he is in New Amsterdam a few months earlier than Thomas Spicer.=C2=A0= (He would have to have been at least 21 years old to have purchased land, = giving him a birth year of 1622 or earlier.)=C2=A0 Note- there is a marriag= e record in at the New Amsterdam DRC 20 Feb 1650 for "Jan Peeck, j. m.= , en Marie Volkers, Wede" (Maria du Trieux, widow of Cornelis Volkerts= zen.)
Abt 1646/47 - John purchases land in Flushing.=C2=A0 On 12 Feb 1653, Robt. = Field gave to his sons a "lot which was formerly John Lake's"= which was located in Flushing.
1647-49, sometime during these years marries Ann Spicer (not Alice).=C2=A0 = If Wm. Stillwell's writings can be relied upon as accurate, the marriag= e occurred in 1649.
Abt 1649-1654 - presumed living in New Amsterdam.
20 May 1652 - first record of John Lake in New Amsterdam.=C2=A0 Baptism of = "Metje", dau of "Jan Leeck" at New Amsterdam RDC.
Oct 1654 - charged by Jacob Steendam's wife with a debt (quoted from ar= ticle by Fred Sisser, NYGBR, Jan 1991)=C2=A0 per New Amsterdam court minute= s, "Jan Leeck, notwithstanding arrest and summons... has departed from= this city". (Records of New Amsterdam 1:261).
Abt 1654-1660 - Living in Flatlands.
Jan 1657 - apparently had removed from New Amsterdam to Long Island and is = identified as being "of Amersfoort (Flatland) when "Jan Leyck&quo= t; contributed toward Domine Polhemus' salary (F. Sisser article, refer= ences ER 1:366).
Abt 1660-1672 - Living in Flatbush.
15 May 1660 - purchased farm in Midwout (Middlewout Flatbush) from Margueri= te Provost (Town of Flatbush records, Kings Co. Clerk's Office).
20 Sep 1661 - sold to Tys (Matthys) Lubbertse a village plot, land on the p= lain and salt meadow in Flatbush, LI (Town of Flatbush records).
16 Jun 1666 - transferred Midwout land to Bartelt Claessen and Hendrick Kip= (pg. 111-113 Flatbush Twn Rec, 1670-1708, Lib A, p5 of typescript at LI Hi= st Soc made by DeWitt Van Buren, 1936.)
21 Nov 1670 - (Town Records, Book 2, p. 108) "John Lake of Amersford b= ought a gray horse a gelding of about 8 years ould" from James Hubbard= of Gravesend.
1672-1683 - Appears to have lived in Gravesend until he died.
1672 - secured lots 19 and 30 in "west meddow" of Gravesend (Town= Records, Book 3, p.34).
5 May 1673 - (Town Records, Book 4, p. 36) John Lake fined 15s for contempt= of authority and breach of order for "presumptiously kepeth his cattl= e in the field to the great damage of his neighbors".
1673 - "26th daye of ye 8th month, Anno Dom. 1673" deed made at G= ravesend witnessed by "John Lake, Senr" (Town Records, Book 5, p.= 6).
6d12m 1674 - 2nd Division of 15 acre Lots of Dutch Meadows, John Lake Lots = 18 and 25. (Town Records, Book 3, p.37).
2d1m 1675 - John Lake and Samuel Holmes agreed to exchange with each other = their 15 acre Lots.=C2=A0 John Lake to have Lot 17 and Samuel Holmes to hav= e Lot 25.
10 Dec 1675 - LEHEY, WILLIAM agreed with John Lake to build him a house, 26= by 16 ft., in Gd, as per Gd rec.=C2=A0 Signed his name "Will. nol Leh= ey." per Bergen=E2=80=99s Early Settlers.
19 Dec 1675 - "Jan Leeck, resident oat Gravesent" sold "Luyc= kes Stevense a certain parcel of land lying in Amsfort... large fifteen mor= gens" (Flatbush Town Records, Misc. Vol., p.17).
Abt 1677 - (Town Records, Book 3, p. 45) John Lake, Lots 3,10 and 30 of Lan= d upon the Island adjacent to town.
1683 - John Lake appears on the ratable list of Gravesend as John Lake, Sr.= , liable for tax of 17s 3 1/2d on 88 acres, 16 cows, 4 horses and 2 adults;= his sons John and Daniel, were taxed also. (Doc His of NY, vol. 2, p. 509)= .
NOTE:=C2=A0 Prior to 1688/9, John is assumed to have died since Ann is name= d as owner of Lots 19 and 9.
1 Mar 1688/9 - (Town Records, Book 3, p. 54) Land eastward of Town in the N= ecks:=C2=A0 Anna Lake, Lots 19 and 9; Daniel Lake, Lots 21 and 17; John Lak= e, Lot 36.
Abt 1688/9 - (Town Records, Book 3, p. 56) Anna Lake in possession of Lot 3= 0 and 38 in the North Woods.=C2=A0 Lot 30 is subsequently exchanged with Wi= lliam Goulding for Lot 18.=C2=A0 John Lake (presume Jr.) in possession of L= ot 28 in North Woods.
 

I am copying Wesley Johnston on this email=C2=A0 He moderates the Lake Loya= list Group.=C2=A0 Wesley will give you the particulars on how to join the g= roup as well as how to add your dna kit results.=C2=A0 Wesley, Marshall Lak= e and Craig Kanally have been working overtime these past few years to anal= yze dna kits of any and all Canadian LAKEs to determine where they may fit = within the Loyalist network as well as just who we think John of Gravesend = was and where he came from.=C2=A0 Best guess as of now is perhaps Devonshir= e since we have close matches the Eastlake/Estlicks there.=C2=A0 I'm tu= rning you over to Wesley right now because between still having a bit of re= sidual covid fog and dealing with my 99 year old mother-in-law's needs,= I'm still fumbling a bit.
 
I still can't find a link for your James Lake, b.1757 to our Lake line = but if he was also from Dutchess county, as were the Stover women who marri= ed into our Lake line, his Lake roots may be from the Rhode Island clan (ma= ybe?).
Annette
p.s.=C2=A0 I'll get back to you soon
---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
 
 
Another dna match Susan Rogers_Thorton (Hough=E2=80=99s Family Tree) goes t= hrough John Lake/Neeltje Claessen.
Another dna match amanda_halliwell50 with a Catherine Lake who goes up to J= ohn Lake/Alice Spicer.
With so many dna matches leading to these Lakes my James must belong there = somewhere.
I also have a dna match with a ladonnabray31 who has Lt. John Lake/Margaret= Snider, Ernestown,=C2=A0 in her tree.
I also have dna matches linking me to Lakes in Rhode Island, Maine and New = Brunswick Canada.
 
I hope that, what information I have shared with you, helps.=C2=A0
I look forward to hearing from you and seeing what you think.
 
Cathy
 
 
Sent from my iPad
 

 
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;Loyalist Lake Family History" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to loyalist-lake-history+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/loyalist-lake-history/1665317743.4= 0116.1674255616380%40mail.yahoo.com.
=20 You received this digest because you're subscribed to updates for thi= s group. You can change your settings on the group membership page. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it send= an email to loyalist-lake-history+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
--0016367f94b4b30060474d22062--